[TIAL]

this is what i use Noise Cancelling Headphones http://store.apple.com/us/product/T6832LL/B i pack my ipod full of music, pod casts stuff from the sound vault here, kick back and relax they DO REALLY WORK!

I'd love some of those but they're bloody expensive! Is there anything that does the same thing at a lower price?

[thenamesarnold]

I'd love some of those but they're bloody expensive! Is there anything that does the same thing at a lower price?

Cotton wool does the job at keeping the sound out, sorry i had to say it ok attempted joke over. Yes they are expensive as i looked into getting a pair but decided, for the sound proofing its not worth it . So just a large pair of headphones for me.

[missscotia]

How weird, they spoke about Dom's flying this morning. I got an answer, that cool What a coincidence.

[MK Chris]

S'got nothing to do with people....s'physics. Plane goes fast, air goes over wings, plane goes up. As long as you don't fly through a vacum you'll be fine.

That's not true. As Yudwuk says, most air crashes are caused by human error, either by engineers using the wrong type of bolt or the pilot getting something horribly wrong.

[Andy B]

What about that crash at heathrow earlier this year? What caused that (I don't know) anyway the fact that everyone managed to get off the plane was put down to the brilliance of the pilot. Also when pilots are doing their jobs right you don't get to hear about it. Most pilots don't get to make decisions. It's more down to Air Traffic Control.

Don't know about engineers. And bolts. Are planes held together with bolts? Like meccano?

[MK Chris]

No, you don't get to hear about pilots doing their job right most of the time - except when they avert disaster and save hundreds of lives. That's because the vast majority of the time, pilots do their jobs correctly and if you heard about every single time a plane touched down without incident, there'd be no space in the papers for anything else and frankly, no one would buy it anyway. But, the fact is that when something does go wrong, it is nearly always a human error - air traffic control making a mistake can still be a human error.

[Yudster]

S'got nothing to do with people....s'physics. Plane goes fast, air goes over wings, plane goes up. As long as you don't fly through a vacum you'll be fine.

I think its worth re-posting this just to underline what a complete piece of nonsense it is.

[Andy B]

Although technically anything could be human error. Everyone needs somebody to blame, engine faliure? Engineer should have checked it more thoroughly.

It's like that bit in futurama where the 3000 hulled oil tanker crashes and the cry goes up "If only they built it with 3001 hulls!"

[Yudster]

See thats the way forward - just base all your opinions and make all your decisions based on the scripts of cartoon shows. Its the future.

[Andy B]

My opinions aren't based on cartoon scripts, if they were i'd put forward more suggestions around dropping anvils on people or hitting them in the face with a frying pan or strapping ACME rockets to a pair of roller skates.

I was using it as a cynical example of how when every anything goes wrong people need to find a source of blame.

[MK Chris]

It's not so true for natural things - like floods and hurricanes - those sorts of things can't be stopped (although you can build up some defences). Aeroplanes are man-made and therefore, most of the time, things that go wrong will be down to someone getting it wrong.

[Andy B]

But this is true of all things, cars trains, boats, Space Shuttle. It's part of the world that everything will eventually fail, people are not perfect and accidents will happen. You can't do anything to change it so why worry?

[Yudster]

I can't change anything, but I can choose - when its of no material concern to me either way - not to put myself at the mercy of these vagaries. Which is what I do.

[DannyBoy]

i know that's the only downside they are expensive but are worth it, there Apple store prices, you can always try Ebay but BUYER BEWARE on the authenticity if they are actually BOSE or knock offs.

this is what i use Noise Cancelling Headphones http://store.apple.com/us/product/T6832LL/B i pack my ipod full of music, pod casts stuff from the sound vault here, kick back and relax they DO REALLY WORK!

I'd love some of those but they're bloody expensive! Is there anything that does the same thing at a lower price?

[MK Chris]

I'm with foot-loose, that this replying above the quote is * annoying.

[TIAL]

It's a bit off topic, but since we've answered the original question, I thought I'd throw this spanner in the works:

"A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in the opposite direction). Can the plane take off?"

[foot-loose]

Don't f*cking start with that sh*t.

I argued about this for roughly six months. Never ever again.

[MK Chris]

Something close to your heart?

Surely it would still take off?

[Chris]

It's a bit off topic, but since we've answered the original question, I thought I'd throw this spanner in the works:

"A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in the opposite direction). Can the plane take off?"

Yes, because the wheels don't provide the drive.

If you don't believe me, ask Mythbusters.

[Yudster]

But surely it's lift and thrust which make the plane take off, which are dependant on air moving at a certain speed over the wings - surely in the above scenario the plane is stationary so there will be no significant movement of air over the wings?

[Andy B]

Precisely, if there is no airflow over the wings then it can't generate lift. The engines sucking in air will move some but with no significant thrust the airflow over the wings will be neglige.

I hate to disagree with Mr H. and even more so with Mythbusters but I'm gonna take a stand on this.

I say no. Lift is a direct result of significant forward momentum.

EDIT - Having seen the mythbusters video I now change my mind - however I still argue that it's wrong. Just because I say so.

[Yudster]

I just want to understand HOW!

[Andy B]

It's like the pulling the tablecloth from under a set table and leaving everything on it. Once the wheels have enough momentum to overcome friction they spin freely as they are not gripping the converyor like a car would.

Watch all the videos, there's a good one with a car that explains it.

It's still wrong though.

[Bruvva]

Mythbusters got it wrong on this occasion. Actually, that programme often has a huge case of wrongness - like the "bullets going through a car door" one where they used armour piercing rounds from about 20 yards away rather than normal bullets from a normal gun.

And they have funny facial hair, you can't trust them.

[Yudster]

It's like the pulling the tablecloth from under a set table and leaving everything on it. Once the wheels have enough momentum to overcome friction they spin freely as they are not gripping the converyor like a car would.

Watch all the videos, there's a good one with a car that explains it.

It's still wrong though.

None of it explains how you generate Lift. I understand the generation of momentum, but thats not the only thing you need for flight. I'm still confused.