[Yudster]

What I was trying to get at was the kind of scenario where someone is trying (consciously or subconsciously) to suppress what they really are by behaving in an accepted "normal" way. Surely many gay people have had their true sexuality, which they may have been denying, confirmed at least in part by failed attempts at relationships with the opposite sex? A friend of Mr Yudster's really only finally came to terms with his homosexuality when he was almost married. He literally jilted the poor girl two days before the wedding - which was awful (especially as I'd bought a new dress!), but she's forgiven him because she knows it was awful for him too, he was in pieces - and she is sensible enough to know he did the right thing, if a little late. I don't suppose many people let it get quite as bad as that, but I imagine it happens on some level or another to a few people at least.

But that isn't what Topher said.

No - it was what I said, which was prompted by musings generated by what Topher said. Or it wasn't what I said, but it was what I meant. But it can't have been what Topher said because he is different from me. In many many ways. One of which being what he said.

Another musing generated by thoughts on the subject in general - it must be quite easy for people who have never had any doubts about their sexuality to assume that anyone who is gay has always been equally certain. Tisn't the case though.

[MK Chris]

I think that's true in general though - it's often difficult to understand what someone is going through if you have never been through that, or why someone can't do something if you're very good at it. People who are good with money often find it difficult to understand how people who are rubbish at organising their finances struggle with such a trivial thing - but I know as much as anyone that it's not trivial and (for me at least) certainly not easy. By the same token, people who have a very good sense of direction can get very frustrated with people with no sense of direction because they don't understand how people can be that rubbish.

[Yudster]

I was chatting with a family member a couple of weeks ago - he "decided" (his family's term, not mine) he was gay when he was about 35. I had always been pretty dismissive of it all really, I couldn't see how he could go all that time without really knowing who or what he was - but after talking to him I think I realised how daft it was to think that. With all his family telling him he just hadn't met the right girl yet, he just found it easier to go with the flow. He has a nice fella now (VERY nice......) and seems really happy, and he's managing to enjoy that rather than regret the wasted time I think. Anyway, I'm really glad we chatted, it was illuminating for me.

[Boboff]

Now I feel silly.

[ladbroke]

Now I feel willy.

You've turned now too......?

[Yudster]

Nah, not Boboff, he's all for the ladies!

[Boboff]

Now I feel my willy.

You've turned now too......?

No never, although I am good at decorating cakes, cleaning and flower arranging, but I am all man.

[foot-loose]

No - it was what I said, which was prompted by musings generated by what Topher said. Or it wasn't what I said, but it was what I meant. But it can't have been what Topher said because he is different from me. In many many ways. One of which being what he said.

Another musing generated by thoughts on the subject in general - it must be quite easy for people who have never had any doubts about their sexuality to assume that anyone who is gay has always been equally certain. Tisn't the case though.

But again, that is not the point Topher made and not the point I disagreed with. The phrase "turned" implies that her being with him is what made her a lesliebean and, while I'm sure Topher would love to have that accolade, I doubt that it's anywhere near as simple as that. Her being with a guy may make her realise that it is doing nothing for her, and make her realise certain things, but that's not really the same. The phrase 'turning someone' irritates me cos it implies that someone has a choice in the whole affair which I don't belive is the case. If it is, then that would mean I have chosen to be gay and as far as I'm aware, that's not the case.

Also, you started off by backing up what Topher had said, so my previous reply of "thats bollocks" was directed at that. The musings that you have posted since, I would say were generated cos I argued with your first post, not cos of what Topher said. I haven't argued with anything else you have said.

*ponces off*

[MK Chris]

For what it's worth, I know I personally didn't 'turn' this person, but the story is funnier that way.

[foot-loose]

For what it's worth, I know I personally didn't 'turn' this person, but the story is funnier that way.

Oh I know this. I'm just arguing with Yudster cos she jumped on the bandwagon!

[Yudster]

Certain experiences can confirm or deny feelings or preferences. If you're the one who provided those experiences, I think its fair to take some of the credit. Or blame. Or both.

Where did I say anything about whether or not someone can or can't be turned (and I know gay people who disagree with you on that one too Foots)? I thought by the time I posted that the whole "turned" issue (in terms of your distaste at the term) had been done with. I hadn't actually taken much notice of that bit, knowing it's just one of your pet peeves. I was just amused at the thought that being with Topher was the final confirmation this girl needed to know she was on the wrong track - i still think its funny too.

I seem to be remarkably stationary for someone on a bandwagon.

[Andy B]

Ooh is there a bandwagon going around? I've often wondered what one looks like.

[Yudster]

I don't think there is, but you should ask foots - he's good at spotting them, even when they aren't there.

[ladbroke]

knowing it's just one of your pet peeves.

I had a pet peeve once. I had to get rid, it fought with the cat.

[foot-loose]

Where did I say anything about whether or not someone can or can't be turned

You didn't say the word, but it was all part of the same conversation.

(and I know gay people who disagree with you on that one too Foots)?

I'm pretty sure that medical science disagrees with me as well.

[Sunny So Cal]

I was just amused at the thought that being with Topher was the final confirmation this girl needed to know she was on the wrong track

Ha. You can see her now, coming home after being with Topher, she throws her hands in the air and says, "Oh, * it. That's it!"

i still think its funny too.

You're not alone in that assessment. It's very funny.

[MK Chris]

See - makes the story funnier.

[Yudster]

You didn't say the word, but it was all part of the same conversation.

The conversation had several levels - the bit about turning was only one of them, and , as I said, over as far as I could tell.

(and I know gay people who disagree with you on that one too Foots)?

I'm pretty sure that medical science disagrees with me as well.

Really? That astonishes me - I thought there wasn't really any medical consensus, and if there were, I would have expected it to be the other way to be honest. I don't like the idea of thinking of sexuality as a medical issue, it makes me uncomfortable.