[Vivienne]

who cares if she does it first! If she can capitalise on it, good!

yep, topher, it's the nature of fame... but when Prince did a lot of the stuff she did/does, he didn't get damned ... because he was male! There's a difference.

[Console]

First of all, she is not old. 49 is not old!

With the average life expectancy being around 70 years, and Madonna being 70% of that, I think it's fair to call her old. If you wouldn't class 49 as old, what age would you class as old?

[Vivienne]

old = 100 .. or old in spirit = you.

[kendra k]

prince is a musical genius and was far more groundbreaking and innovative than madonna. it's like comparing apples and oranges. i don't think he receives as much criticism as madonna because it's clear that he does what he wants and doesn't need to reinvent himself to stay with the trends. madonna takes what's been proven in the underground scenes and uses her influence and popularity to make it mainstream. true, she couldn't do it if she didn't already have a large fanbase, but just because she's the first person to make it mainstream doesn't mean she's actually good at it. she just as a legion of willing drones ready to buy it. i will totally give madonna respect for being extremely shrewd and business savvy, but not for creativity.

lourdes might go see her daddy, but the only time madge (ick!) is in america is to remind us how much better she is than the rest of us. it's because she lives in progressive london, don't cha know? or to shill her crappy children's books. (why does being a singer/pole dancer make you qualified to be a children's author?)

sorry, i just have strong feelings when it comes to music, creativity, and credit.

[Console]

old = 100

So an age most people will never reach is tipping point from not-old to old? I think it would have to be below the average lifespan Viv.

or old in spirit = you.

Rubbish attempt. Try harder.

[Vivienne]

try harder yourself! She turned in a performance at Live Earth that out-did everyone else single-handedly, putting many others to shame... you talk a whole load of rubbish sometimes, I swear often just purely to disagree with me.

[kendra k]

live earth was one of the most bloated, arrogant, smug things i've ever seen. madonna's performance not amazing. i'm not saying this purely to wind you up, i just appreciate different things. i don't pay more than $30 for tickets and don't go to concerts with more than 500 people. the only exception would of course be for morrissey. (morrissey is an institution in and of himself.)

[Console]

She turned in a performance at Live Earth that out-did everyone else single-handedly, putting many others to shame...

What did that have to do with anything that I was talking about?

[Vivienne]

just use your loaf.

[DemonHorse]

are we back to bready conversations again?

[S4B]

It happens all too often demon

[Vivienne]

he's gonna get a loaf in the face

[kendra k]

loaf of bread or a loaf of poo? i don't get it.

[Console]

just use your loaf.

So nothing; you know, that would have been quicker to write.

[Vivienne]

blow it out your a**, Console.

[Chris]

Viv, take your Madonna whining to a madonna forum. The official position of chrismoyles.net is that I don't care for the old hag.

And that's the last word on the matter.