[S4B]

Balls I'm fed up with you as well!!!!

[MK Chris]

I don't think I know one woman who either can't or doesn't feel comfortable reverse parking (except the ones who can't drive).

[S4B]

to be honest Topher, how many women drivers do you know!? And now you do because I am not comfortable reverse parking I don't see the point!

[MK Chris]

to be honest Topher, how many women drivers do you know!?

Lots; they're not an uncommon breed.

And now you do because I am not comfortable reverse parking I don't see the point!

But you mentioned logic; to me it is more logical to reverse into a spot because it's far easier to then get out. The main reason for this is because you can actually see far better what is coming so you don't pull out in front of anyone if you're driving out. I think it's rather illogical to drive in (in most cases).

[S4B]

I drive through!!! Oh for god's sake you are just being deliberately provocative Topher!

[MK Chris]

I'm really not, I honestly can't see how you would think it's more logical to drive forwards into a parking space rather than reverse and I'm genuinely intrigued because my opinion is the exact opposite (for reasons I stated above.)

[Sunny So Cal]

Wow. I've only had the one cup of tea but I'll go ahead and dive into this lively debate with a few comments.
I most often than not will reverse into a parking spot (when it's safe to do so) because I find it more expedient when I'm pulling back out. I have a friend who can't reverse park and she grips the sides of my car when I do this. It is very irritating. Go out and learn.
I also tend to parallel park more often than not, particularly if the car park is full up and they charge to park there. I'd just as soon go out on the street and not have to worry that some tit will come dent my door. (Side note: actually got into a fight with a woman driving a Volvo that smashed the door of my car when I came walking up with my kids. When I gasped she said, "It didn't leave a mark." It was very unpleasant and I'm not proud of what I did next...)
Lastly, if you think Mexico has the worst drivers, try living in San Diego where most of them cross the border to come up and work. My favorite bit is when they drive 40mph in the middle lane because their car is such a pile of * that it can't get up to top speeds. Additionally, most will not have insurance and/or be illegal so even when they cause an accident they aren't liable or they won't stick around long enough to be charged with it.
Hey, there's nothing wrong with American drivers. That's stereotypical, Toph. That's like saying we're all fat. Oh, sure, America is the fattest nation in the world but come on...Some of us are slim and can drive well.
As for your roundabouts. I don't understand what the big deal is. Having been to the UK several times for many weeks at a time and being the primary driver, I never found it difficult except when, as previously noted, you get people who don't understand that those lines on the street actually indicate individual lanes that they should adhere to or indicate that they prefer to do otherwise. That said, was hit in Glasgow on the M8 on the way to the airport by a very large lorry. It was a hit and run. We were in stopped morning traffic and he just merged directly into the side of our car. My son was in the backseat. It was quite scary.
If I had to drive as much as you, Foots, I'd have done this thread, too.

[S4B]

At least Sunny knows the difference between parallel parking and reversing into a space (which I can do quite happily!)

[MK Chris]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with American drivers. That's stereotypical, Toph. That's like saying we're all fat. Oh, sure, America is the fattest nation in the world but come on...Some of us are slim and can drive well.

I didn't mean to be stereotypical and I certainly know that some of you are good drivers; what I meant was that my impression (however limited or incorrect it may be) of the American driving test is that is not as strict as ours (not that ours is as strict as it should be), which will inevitably lead to some not very good drivers on the road. I think this must also be the problem with Mexico; in fact I think a lot of them got their license by saving the tokens on the backs of Corn Flakes packets.

[Sunny So Cal]

You are far more generous than I. I do not believe they are licensed. Particularly the little rat b* that ran me up on the island in the middle of the road when we were getting off the motorway because he was in the right lane but suddenly after coming around the corner wanted to be in the left lane so he could turn into the shopping center. Please, don't bother indicating. Just come right in. My car is meant to drive rapidly up on an island and scrape its bumper. No, don't worry about it. The dealership fixes that for free.......

[MK Chris]

I once read the following when I was considering driving in Paris, which made me laugh:

...To complicate matters I am now living in a country where people drive on the wrong side of the road and change gear with their right hands. After a decade I still cannot get my head around this, so whether I’m in France or the UK I invariably head to the wrong side of every car when trying to locate the passenger seat. And whether I’m crossing a French road or an English road I inevitably look the wrong way first. To make matters worse, I live in a city where most people drive as if they have just snorted several grams of cocaine (arrogantly, aggressively), parallel park in miniscule spaces (ahem, parallel parking wasn’t even tested back in 1991) and disregard a different highway code altogether. You will be relieved to hear that I don’t plan to exchange my British driving license for a French one any time soon.

If you are foolhardy enough to drive in the French capital, here are a few tips on how to drive like a native Parisian:

• You know those lovely big French roundabouts with no lane markings whatsoever - like Charles de Gaulle Etoile, Bastille and Place de la Concorde? The rule for use of these roundabouts is under no circumstances should you use your indicator to show people what your intentions are. Instead, weave in and out of the ‘lanes’ in a random fashion, and then cut off several lanes of traffic when you reach your exit.
  
• Learn to park the French way! Nudging the bumpers of the cars adjacent to your space is perfectly acceptable, and indeed expected. I once spied four people lifting a Fiat Uno sideways out of a space it had got hemmed into.
  
• Ignore traffic lights. Give yourself an extra five seconds to drive across a junction after the lights have turned to red. Everyone else does. Or at the very least, brake at the very last minute so that paranoid, pushchair-wheeling pedestrians are unsure about whether you plan to stop, or not. That way they can only get to the traffic island in the middle before the lights change.
  
• If you drive a moped/scooter/motorbike it is compulsory to drive the wrong way around traffic islands in order to get ahead. It keeps pedestrians on their toes (except petite anglaise, who instinctively looks the wrong way and therefore cannot be caught out). Driving across the pavement to jump the lights altogether is also perfectly acceptable, on one condition: do not reduce your speed.
  
• The horn should be used liberally at all times, and not just when you are part of a wedding cortège. Rolling down your windows and swearing* is also highly recommended if you want to blend in with the natives. There doesn’t have to be any particular provocation. And don’t forget to accompany your tirade with a vigorous shake of your fist.

Source: http://www.petiteanglaise.com/archives/2005/01/26/driving/

[catherine]

Shh Sunny you american fat ass.

[foot-loose]

S4B, I really don't think Topher was being deliberatly obtuse, he was asking all the questions I would have asked. I don't really follow how it is more logical to park further away from your destination when there is a perfectly good space available. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying if there was a much easier space to just plop (good word) into close by, I would do the same. But especially at this time of year, parking spaces in the city are getting harder to come by.

This was never meant to be a personal attack on your driving by the way - i'm not too sure how it ended up being that.

I once read the following when I was considering driving in Paris, which made me laugh:

On my visit to Paris, the large roundabout round the Arc de Triomphe was something that I couldn't work out. At least in this country, you don't tend to see vehicles at right angles to each other on a roundabout.

Something that my customers have commented on is how polite the drivers are here. Puts me right off wanting to drive anywhere else in the world.

[Yudster]

My god this is a boring thread.

I find reversing into a space easier than going in forwards, but if I was at Sainsbury's I would go in forwards so that I can get the shopping in the back more easily.

Parallel parking is much easier than trying to manouvre...manoevre..manoover......get into a roadside parking space forwards, as long as you use your mirrors. I think - and I don't know why it should be, but it seems so - that many people (those with breasts and also those with penipee) have difficulty not so much in reversing, but in using their mirrors.

[Sunny So Cal]

Shh Sunny you american fat ass.

*running out to purchase cellulite cream*

[catherine]

Don't put it on scones

[foot-loose]

I'm afraid that practise is the only way, charla. If possible, try getting out and practising the bits you are not so comfortable with between lessons.

Roundabouts can be confusing but each one works on the same basic principles. The most important thing is that you signal to tell everyone where you are going. I imagine that your instructor may tell you only to signal when you are leaving the roundabout - while that may be the way to pass your test - once you're out on the road, remember that if you tell people what you intend to do, they wont be surprised when you do it. The whole thing about signaling too much is bollocks, as far as I'm concerned.

Dual carrigeways will also come with time. Keep practising - i'd imagine that your main problem is a confidence due to lack of experience (I might be wrong, don't hit me if I am). If so, the more you do it, the happier you will become.


As a side note to others: I highly endorse the Institute of Advanced Motorists. Not only will they help you actually realised how straight forward driving properly is (and the logic behind why it is safer) - they can get you cheaper deals on your insurance. New drivers: don't go for this straight after passing your test, go out and get some experience on the road first.

[timp]

Ah driving...a touchy subject of mine. I recently failed my first attempt at my test, for not signaling in time to let the guy behind me know I was pulling up on the side of the road...(this was due to the fact i had not checked my mirrors properly. For this he majored me. I don't think it was a major driving fault I just think I momentarily confused the guy behind me, although i guess that shows the importance of signalling. I think in another country I would've passed so we actually do have a high standard here in the UK.
Gear changing is no problem and I don't understand why people have problems with it.
On dual carriageways I suffer from my instructor having a mere 1.2l engine, so acceleration is a bit slow.
I think it's safer to reverse park in first so you don't have to reverse back out (more dangerous)
I think learners should be allowed on the motorway when the indstructor sees fit
Yudster I disagree, I really enjoyed reading this thread, well done foots.

[catherine]

I don't see the point of us teenagers driving. Yes, if you have kids and you need to take them to school and then get to work or if you need to catch 2 buses and a train to work but seriously why bother learning to drive at 17, with insurance, a car and petrol you can't afford.
I think people should start driving once they are out of uni or out of education. Usually all our educational buildings are quite close and easy to get to anyway. Everyone wants to drive now and are learning to when we should be thinking about climate change and congestion. If you need to catch one or two buses then surely that is easier then getting in a car and adding to traffic.

[timp]

If you learn at 17 and parents assist you financially then i don't see the problem, it'll lead to more experience on the road and a safer driver. My bus to school is £2 a journey...no wonders people drive to school as soon as theyve passed....
Climate change and congestion are valid points but if you have a right to use the road just like everone else then why not, if buses wouldnt be convienient?

[catherine]

You might have a right to use roads but think about all the 17 year olds in your classes, think of how many of them are learning to drive, now think about how much more traffic that is going to add in the mornings/afternoons and how much pollution.
We are in a generation where most of our parents have got good jobs and money so nothing is stopping millions more teenagers learning to drive than past generations. Do you actually think this is a good thing? or is your head so far stuck up your own arse you personally don't give a shit as long as you have the luxury of getting into your car on a cold morning.

[foot-loose]

I don't see the point of us teenagers driving. Yes, if you have kids and you need to take them to school and then get to work or if you need to catch 2 buses and a train to work but seriously why bother learning to drive at 17, with insurance, a car and petrol you can't afford.
I think people should start driving once they are out of uni or out of education. Usually all our educational buildings are quite close and easy to get to anyway. Everyone wants to drive now and are learning to when we should be thinking about climate change and congestion. If you need to catch one or two buses then surely that is easier then getting in a car and adding to traffic.

While I agree with you (with hindsight) - at the time I couldn't wait to get out on the roads: f*ck the cost etc. It's not right, but I imagine it's how most 17 / 18 year olds think.

[timp]

I dont...I get the bus as I already said...is it that time of the month cat? That sounded rather annoyed, just because i contradicted you. *runs for cover*

[foot-loose]

Don't bother running for cover - stand and fight like a man. She is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Or a sheep in wolves clothing. Either way, she is into cross-dressing.

[Bonanzoid]

I passed 5 months after I turned 17, but I live in a relatively rural village, so it's useful. Dual carriageways are heaps of fun, although I haven't yet tried a motorway, the nearest one to me is about 50 (ish) miles South, and I never need to drive there.

As for the Pass Plus thing, I planned on doing it too, but after I passed I really couldn't face another bout of lessons, even if they were alot less hours. It seemed like a year flew past though, and before I knew it I had a maximum of 12 points on my license to get disqualified (as opposed to 6) and my insurance went down, albeit a wee bit. Mind you, I'm not sure the exact financial margins that doing Pass Plus leads to, and if it is indeed worth it after having paid for the course itself.

The cliché "You don't start learning until you pass" is very true though. When I passed I was still hesitant and got pretty nervous around roundabouts but within a matter of months both had gone.

And, almost 2 years later, I still check my mirrors.