[McGuinness-89]

Amazed there's no thread on this.Just heard Keys on Talksport and he seemed genuinely sorry.Can't imagine football on Sky without them.

[bmstinton93]

I think it's completely wrong. Yeah Ok there is a point that sexism is wrong but sexism in this country only seems to work one way. And I could understand him getting sacked if he said it on air but he didn't.

I hear people being sexist everyday and its just funny. I don't know anyone who has ever been offended by anything like that.


And besides..... It's a well known fact that women don't know the offside rule.




btw....

'I was having an argument with the missus the other day and she said "you never see things from my point of view" so I went and looked out the kitchen window!'

[Yudster]

Has Keys been sacked as well then?

[Nicola_Red]

And I could understand him getting sacked if he said it on air but he didn't.

So it's okay to think that women are inferior in their profession as long as no women hear you say it? Is it okay to refer to black people as 'n1ggers' as long as there are no black people around when you say it?

I hear people being sexist everyday and its just funny. I don't know anyone who has ever been offended by anything like that.

Well now you do, cos I am. There's a difference between comments made in jest and what they said - it wasn't funny in the slightest.

[DevilsDuck]

I think that it was so un-funny its now funny.

[Nicola_Red]

Yeah, the sheer stupidity of them casually saying stuff like that and then furiously backpedalling to try to keep their jobs is pretty funny.

[chrysostom]

In any other situation, this would lead to a disciplinary.

Leaked tapes are suspicious, most likely answer is that sky wanted to refresh the format - the contracts were too tight to terminate, and they put the material out themselves. By making the situation public, they could no longer deal with it internally and it became trial by media.

While the comments were wrong, as they weren't made in a broadcasting capacity - I would say that they warranted no more than a severe disciplinary, and sensitivity course.

Keys sounded sorry, and devastated that his career has been torn apart - not by making the mistake he made, but by a colleague who intentionally exposed him. He was in the wrong, but it should have been an internal matter. Now his career of 20 years has been besmirched because of intentional sabotage. I kind of feel sorry for him, but as a pundit I dislike him - and Gray.

Also, Gray was sacked and Keys resigned after giving a very strong interview detailing the reality of the situation from his perspective. It's easy to get swept up in the snowballing blame game.

[Yudster]

They're just a couple of TV presenters, and in Andy Gray's case, a not very good one - who really cares? Anyone in pretty much any workplace would be risking trouble saying and doing stuff like that these days, if they couldn't be bothered to watch their mouths that's their lookout.

[SAV1OUR]

If it was the Beeb it'd be trial by media now. Oh, and before he'd been sacked too. I don't take the whole thing seriously, if his phone had been hacked and this is Uncle Rupert's revenge for him taking action then I really wouldn't care if when the autocues and cameras got switched off, a tail and ears sprouted from all of them and they turned red. 'Ethos Policy'. Ha.

Ahh, anyway,

Ooh! Look:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12290535

[bmstinton93]

And I could understand him getting sacked if he said it on air but he didn't.

So it's okay to think that women are inferior in their profession as long as no women hear you say it? Is it okay to refer to black people as 'n1ggers' as long as there are no black people around when you say it?

But racism is a completely different thing. Sexism is actually generally accepted in every day life. Women make the same amount of derogatory comments towards men as men do.


If Andy gray deserves the sack then basically everyone in retail does. The amount of times i hear the staff moaning about customers in my Lunch break at work is a lot. And also many female colleagues at work come up to me saying things like "oh men are crap at going shopping and they take so long to pack their bags. " do they also deserve the sack then? These are comments that are thrown around the workplace and every day life constantly.

Also he deliberately said it off air so that he was being professional in his job.

[SAV1OUR]

When I hear Jo Brand replying to what the perfect man is as 'Dead' I just laugh, she makes the whole thing funny as she is brilliant.

[Yudster]

If the people in my team - which is service orientated - made comments like that about the people we encounter at work, be they business partners or service users, they would expect to be disciplined. And maligning the professional competence of a highly qualified professional is not something which can be compared with moaning about going shopping with your husband. And making suggestive and sexually provocative remarks to a work colleague would be instant suspension and probable dismissal. If that isn't the case where you work bmstinton, your workplace isn't being run according to current legislation, whatever you might personally think of that kind of behaviour.

[Yudster]

And before you point out again that the initial conversation was "off air" therefore it was ok - well, nothing that's said in my office is broadcast to the nation, but if I stood in the middle of the room and said that I thought women couldn't possibly understand management accounting and maybe one of the men would like to go and explain it to our new female Finance Director, I expect I'd get canned too.

[bmstinton93]

If the people in my team - which is service orientated - made comments like that about the people we encounter at work, be they business partners or service users, they would expect to be disciplined. And maligning the professional competence of a highly qualified professional is not something which can be compared with moaning about going shopping with your husband. And making suggestive and sexually provocative remarks to a work colleague would be instant suspension and probable dismissal. If that isn't the case where you work bmstinton, your workplace isn't being run according to current legislation, whatever you might personally think of that kind of behaviour.

Of course its being run to legislation. We're the 2nd biggest supermarket in the country. And moaning about how men you don't know being crap at shopping is exactly the same type of sexism as Andy Gray saying that a woman he doesn't know is crap at being a lineswoman

[bmstinton93]

Also, in just one episode of loose women there is at least 5 sexist comments and there they are in a professional working environment.

[Yudster]

Moaning about blokes in general is not the same as maligning the ability of a specific named professional individual. And if your colleagues are encouraged or even allowed to gossip and complain about the people they are supposed to be providing a service for, whoever is in charge of them needs some training.

And Loose Women is the biggest load of tripe I have seen since I accidentally saw a Daily Mail. You can sack the lot of them for whatever you like.

[SAV1OUR]

And Loose Women is the biggest load of tripe I have seen since I accidentally saw a Daily Mail. You can sack the lot of them for whatever you like.

As long as it's not ageism eh!! What a minefield! As Frank Skinner so blatantly pointed out in words to this effect "It's coming to something when you're not considered cool enough.........for Countryfile"

[bmstinton93]

Moaning about blokes in general is not the same as maligning the ability of a specific named professional individual. And if your colleagues are encouraged or even allowed to gossip and complain about the people they are supposed to be providing a service for, whoever is in charge of them needs some training.

And Loose Women is the biggest load of tripe I have seen since I accidentally saw a Daily Mail. You can sack the lot of them for whatever you like.

But they still get away with being sexist to men on a daily basis but nobody cares. And i don't recall Andy gray ever saying that she couldn't do her job correctly he just said that generally women don't know the offside rule and nobody cares when its a male referee and a commentator says "well he obviously doesn't know the offside rule " that is undermining someone's professional ability.

[Johnny 1989]

In any other situation, this would lead to a disciplinary.

Leaked tapes are suspicious, most likely answer is that sky wanted to refresh the format - the contracts were too tight to terminate, and they put the material out themselves. By making the situation public, they could no longer deal with it internally and it became trial by media.

While the comments were wrong, as they weren't made in a broadcasting capacity - I would say that they warranted no more than a severe disciplinary, and sensitivity course.

Keys sounded sorry, and devastated that his career has been torn apart - not by making the mistake he made, but by a colleague who intentionally exposed him. He was in the wrong, but it should have been an internal matter. Now his career of 20 years has been besmirched because of intentional sabotage. I kind of feel sorry for him, but as a pundit I dislike him - and Gray.

Also, Gray was sacked and Keys resigned after giving a very strong interview detailing the reality of the situation from his perspective. It's easy to get swept up in the snowballing blame game.

I agree with this, all they needed to do was give them a telling off, a slap on the wrist & a record apology to be broadcast & that would be it, however it seems as if they wanted these two out & this was their perfect opportunity to get rid of them, and I say that as someone who thinks they're both overpaid smug wankers.

They're just a couple of TV presenters, and in Andy Gray's case, a not very good one - who really cares? Anyone in pretty much any workplace would be risking trouble saying and doing stuff like that these days, if they couldn't be bothered to watch their mouths that's their lookout.

To be fair in my office, which has a good mix of men & women, the youngest being 22 the oldest being 67, and to be honest we do have sexist banter quite often in our workplace & it doesn't seem to cause any problems at all, then again it is all said in jest (along the lines of "your a woman though so you wouldn't understand" or "you men couldn't multi-task if you tried only a woman can do that", however it's all said in a jokey way & everyone joins in on it, to be honest we all get on like friends oddly enough ), their comments did seem a little more spiteful however.

But I still think that they only needed a telling off & there's still something fishy about all the way this was handled IMO.

[chrysostom]

it still confounds me that the asa doesn't bother to regulate adverts that are aimed at women, which only seek to invoke a n empathy based around a collective understanding that men are inept in various stereotypical ways (boots are the most recent and prevalent at the moment.

sexism with men being persecuted is acceptable in society - and racism against caucasians is pretty accepted in society, 2 things that annoy me very much, as they aren't seen as taboo as their inverse counterparts.

*disclaimer* i use casual racism every day in what I consider an ironic way - I only get annoyed by people who get annoyed by one form of persecution from majority to minority - but see the majority as up for grabs for mockery and jibes.

[Yudster]

it still confounds me that the asa doesn't bother to regulate adverts that are aimed at women, which only seek to invoke a n empathy based around a collective understanding that men are inept in various stereotypical ways (boots are the most recent and prevalent at the moment.

I know! That Boots advert with the twittering middle class Superwomen and their apparently pathetic husbands is SO bad. If its any consolation, that advert and that type of advertising has a counterproductive effect, certainly as far as I'm concerned and I imagine many others.

[dimtimjim]

Men > Women.

[Nicola_Red]

But racism is a completely different thing. Sexism is actually generally accepted in every day life. Women make the same amount of derogatory comments towards men as men do. .

The fact that sexism is more accepted does not make it okay. What it means is that there is a much bigger need to raise awareness and educate people on the subject.

To be fair in my office, which has a good mix of men & women, the youngest being 22 the oldest being 67, and to be honest we do have sexist banter quite often in our workplace & it doesn't seem to cause any problems at all, then again it is all said in jest (along the lines of "your a woman though so you wouldn't understand" or "you men couldn't multi-task if you tried only a woman can do that", however it's all said in a jokey way & everyone joins in on it, to be honest we all get on like friends oddly enough ), their comments did seem a little more spiteful however..

Same in mine - there are comments that would seem both homophobic and heterophobic flying around all the time. But cos we're all friends we know it's in good humour. From hearing the recording, I agree that the things they said didn't seem like friendly jokes at all.

[DevilsDuck]

But in all fairness.....she is a woman, so what was she doing out of the kitchen *ba dum tshh*

I actually think the women are more sexist than the blokes at work.

[catherine]

They did say some stupid things but I think it's just blokes being blokes having a banter, overall in society women are far more sexist than men.