[catherine]

I personally don't care about learning to drive, i have my whole life to do that. My mum drops me off at my bus stop in the morning because it is on her way to work and then i get a bus back and walk the 1.4 miles home. The fact is a double decker bus can hold about 60 people, more than likely more, based on 5 people sitting in a car that is 12 cars off the road. Now think about all the buses in Britain, how many cars, if people bothered to use them, could be off the road? I havn't even gone into trains yet either.

[MK Chris]

I highly endorse the Institute of Advanced Motorists. Not only will they help you actually realised how straight forward driving properly is (and the logic behind why it is safer) - they can get you cheaper deals on your insurance. New drivers: don't go for this straight after passing your test, go out and get some experience on the road first.

My Grandad used to be an instructor for them in Northampton. Apparently it's an instant fail if you go even 2mph over the speed limit?

I recently failed my first attempt at my test, for not signaling in time to let the guy behind me know I was pulling up on the side of the road...(this was due to the fact i had not checked my mirrors properly. For this he majored me. I don't think it was a major driving fault I just think I momentarily confused the guy behind me, although i guess that shows the importance of signalling. I think in another country I would've passed so we actually do have a high standard here in the UK.

Not necessarily; I think it shows that we have a higher standard than some, but not that it's necessarily high.

On dual carriageways I suffer from my instructor having a mere 1.2l engine, so acceleration is a bit slow.

When you pass you wanna stick to that as a maximum, at least for a while. It'll keep the costs down (tax, insurance, petrol, the lot) and you can get a bigger engine once you've built your no claims up. Also you will probably prang your first car, so buy a relative banger.

I don't see the point of us teenagers driving. Yes, if you have kids and you need to take them to school and then get to work or if you need to catch 2 buses and a train to work but seriously why bother learning to drive at 17, with insurance, a car and petrol you can't afford.
I think people should start driving once they are out of uni or out of education. Usually all our educational buildings are quite close and easy to get to anyway. Everyone wants to drive now and are learning to when we should be thinking about climate change and congestion. If you need to catch one or two buses then surely that is easier then getting in a car and adding to traffic.

Yours is a view I wish I held at your age; I wanted my independence though and at the time that I passed (I was nearly 20 as I didn't start learning till I was nearly 19 and it took me three attempts to pass) I was biking eight miles to work and eight miles home afterwards.

[catherine]

Also Tim, you can get weekly bus passes for 7 pound something in Birmingham so it will probably be cheaper where you are and if you buy a student card which is a one off payment of about 10 pound, i think, you can pay child fare on trains and buses during peak times, doesn't this make your bus fare cheaper than petrol?

[Mozzer]

Some thoughts...

On teenagers: when I turned 17 I was most eager to start driving, for independence, for fun and because all my mates were doing it... maybe not a brilliant excuse but it was probably a factor. It was rather expensive but I think it's worth it. Now I'm at uni I have less need for the car because I can walk or bus round Leeds but at home it's such a blessing. However, apparently my old head of sixth form is the only one in our area who hasn't been to the funeral of a sixth-former involved in a driving accident... sobering indeed.

On dual carriageways: my main problem was that I was slightly nervous joining from a slip road so I used to spend too long checking behind me for traffic, resulting in a bit of weaving. Ulp. Then I realised a short glance was enough, and that mirrors are my friend On the other hand though, when pulling out to overtake, I always forgot to check my blind spot. That nearly caused a collision... never made that mistake again.

On roundabouts: people should know better about lane usage (my dad's terrible) - unless it's labelled otherwise, stick to the left lane for going left or straight ahead, depending on how many exits there are. In the case of one of my local roundabouts, there are only two exits really so there is some confusion about which lane to use to go straight ahead. My friend took the left lane, a wagon took the right. Result: a clipped car and a wagon driver who didn't care or didn't notice.

On Paris: the use of bumpers when parking is ridiculous. Am I right in thinking people deliberately leave their handbrakes slightly loose so that people can nudge them..? And those silly rules Topher posted remind me of the Indian rules of the road... classic material.

[Sunny So Cal]

Don't put it on scones

Scones?! With the aforementioned fat ass comment I think I'll avoid those altogether

[Ballbag]

You've all written way too much in this thread, I can't be arsed to read it. But is the gist of it all that Slut can't drive well?

[Boboff]

Foots is right, of course, but is missing the point.

Some people are nervous, and even with practice can't

Put in their own fuel
Inflate their tyres
Drive at Night
Use Motorways
Approach a Roundabout correctly

Some people however are arrogant and do

Drive with one hand
Believe it is safe to smoke whilst chatting on the phone with a burger and a coke in their lap, changing radio stations, and getting out the directions that they left in the breast pocket of there suit which is hung up in the back of their three series BMW.
Believe that in a lane with passing places, as they are driving faster than you, they should not have to make any attempt to accommodate you.
Honestly believe that by sitting very close to your rear bumper will make you pull across.

However

In between there are all shades of attitudes to driving.

Nervous people will never feel comfortable with some aspects of driving ( I still close my eyes when passing a big truck on a narrow road) and as a recently qualified driver it is very hard to understand quite how easy driving appears for others ( again when learning I felt that it was completely unreasonable of the Instructor to expect me to change gears and steer the car at the same time )

BUT

With most people practice will improve driving, as will about four pints !

Being less than 20 means that you can be nervous of driving and talk about it with your mates allot, after that you should stop it, as it is boring.

[foot-loose]

Foots is right, of course, but is missing the point.

I'm not too sure what point i'm missing?

Some people are nervous, and even with practice can't

Put in their own fuel
Inflate their tyres
Drive at Night
Use Motorways
Approach a Roundabout correctly

If they can't do it, frankly they shouldn't be allowed to - it's not safe.

Some people however are arrogant and do

Drive with one hand
Believe it is safe to smoke whilst chatting on the phone with a burger and a coke in their lap, changing radio stations, and getting out the directions that they left in the breast pocket of there suit which is hung up in the back of their three series BMW.
Believe that in a lane with passing places, as they are driving faster than you, they should not have to make any attempt to accommodate you.
Honestly believe that by sitting very close to your rear bumper will make you pull across.

Arrogance and over-confidence is just as dangerous as those who don't have enough confidence. I watched a guy overtake about ten cars on a country road a couple of weeks ago - it was a blind hill with 'no overtaking'. If anyone had been coming the other way, he would have taken out himself, any passengers, the occupants of the other car and possibly other cars in the area. You better believe I was happy when I went over the crest and saw a nice bright police car pull out after him. Sometimes, the system works.

[Yudster]

I saw a seven car pile-up on the opposite carriageway of the A12 to the one I was on this morning. Caused by a combination of excess speed for the conditions, and driving too close to the vehicle in front. If people could just get their heads around those two things, we'd be a lot further ahead with making the roads safer (although as this thread so dully and repetitively demonstrates, there are many common driving mistakes which seem to have become accepted).

Also, I agree with Timp - from what I have heard, we seem to have a far more stringent driving test in this country than most other European countries, and a hell of a lot more stringent than the USA - and also, it's much tougher now than it was when I took mine. I don't mean the written test, that's appallingly simple and surely more difficult to fail than to pass, but the actual test itself seems far stricter than it was back in the mid-eighties when I took mine.

[MK Chris]

I watched a guy overtake about ten cars on a country road a couple of weeks ago - it was a blind hill with 'no overtaking'. If anyone had been coming the other way, he would have taken out himself, any passengers, the occupants of the other car and possibly other cars in the area. You better believe I was happy when I went over the crest and saw a nice bright police car pull out after him. Sometimes, the system works.

That would have been brilliant to see. With people like that, I always think, you're far better off with them in front of you than behind.

I don't mean the written test, that's appallingly simple and surely more difficult to fail than to pass

Most of the questions are common sense, but there are the odd ones that catch you out when you're 17 and haven't revised as much as you should have done.*

*Yes I failed it first time. I got a maximum the next time though.

[Yudster]

I despair Topher.

[Boboff]

Hide the spare, why ?

[timp]

Also Tim, you can get weekly bus passes for 7 pound something in Birmingham so it will probably be cheaper where you are and if you buy a student card which is a one off payment of about 10 pound, i think, you can pay child fare on trains and buses during peak times, doesn't this make your bus fare cheaper than petrol?

The bus isn't a public bus, it is organised by the school and costs £2 a journey. I think your comments are a bit irrelevant anyway as this thread is about dangerous driving and not climate change/congestion.

[MK Chris]

You two aren't meeting up any more then, no?

[catherine]

I don't give a crap what the thread was about originally, i will air my views as i wish. 17 year olds only want to drive to look good and so they don't need to wait for a bus. They are so up themselves that they couldn't possibly think of another big thing to do except learn to drive at 17, mummy and daddy are paying for it afterall.

[Yudster]

I don't do public transport, unless I need to go to London in which case the train is the only sensible option.

The fact is that I have various people who need me to be at certain places at certain times, and if I'm stood waiting for a bus that never turns up or a train that's broken down, I can't do that. I know cars get stuck in traffic too, but if I'm driving I retain the maximum possible degree of control over my journey. I can choose to leave early if the conditions are bad, or take a different route if there has been an accident. Its not 100%, but it's considerably better than relying on buses or trains.

[Bonanzoid]

mummy and daddy are paying for it afterall.

That makes it the best time to learn.

[timp]

I want to drive so I don't end up paying £6 a day to get to college and back and also so I can get back when I want to rather than have to keep checking the time so I don't miss the train I need so I can get the bus from the station back to my house.

This works out to be what I pay a day. I asked my mate and he said we actually pay £3 per journey, working out at £6 a day.

waiting for a bus that never turns up or a train that's broken down,

This happened just now coming home. The gear box on the bus broke down. Cue a half hour wait...

mummy and daddy are paying for it afterall.

That makes it the best time to learn.

Precisley.

[MK Chris]

I paid for my lessons on my lonesome. I had a few for birthdays and Christmas, but that was it. You appreciate things more if you pay for them yourself.

[Yudster]

That's what I'm telling my kids.

[foot-loose]

Another thing I would like to add:

Drivers that don't read the road ahead - they don't deal with an obsticle till the last minute which to me implies that they haven't seen it.

[timp]

Another thing I would like to add:

Drivers that don't read the road ahead - they don't deal with an obsticle till the last minute which to me implies that they haven't seen it.

That used to be my bad habit on the roads. I think it gets better with experience (that and my driving instructor bollocking me until i kicked the bad habit).

[Yudster]

Mr Yudster does that. It annoys the crap out of me. Actually the more I think about it, the more I think that a lot of men - Mr Y included - mistake "having good reactions and fast reflexes" for "being a good driver".

[Zoot]

Little shits that ride around on mopeds annoy me, the way they ride side by side chatting away on there little high powered hairdryers trying to struggle up to 47 mph, and the amount of times coming into work I come across one doing 45 in a 50, slap bang in the middle of the road so you have to wait to get to the traffic lights before you can get passed him becuase of the windy country lanes.
What do they need to learn to actually get one on the road? It seems they only have to take a single basic lesson then they can put one on the road as long as they have L plates stuck on the front. The majority have absolutely no road sense what so ever. I've even seen one kid riding with his helmet half off talking into a mobile phone sandwiched between his shoulder and ear! the other week I came to a junction to turn left, looked right, looked left, looked right again, began to pull out and a fricken hoody little shit on a moped behind me and mounted the curb on my inside, and pulled out back on to the road to turn left in front of me.
Bastards!

[MK Chris]

I agree with the above post whole-heartedly.