[Vivienne]

O here we go! Another one of life's great debates!! Bruvva, you are sad because your life will have to meaning. What purpose do you have to this life, if you believe in nothing!

[Console]

A person can believe there is more to this life without being abused by others.

That's not what I said (or at least not what I meant). I didn't mean that all believers are abused, but some of the naive/gullible ones can be controlled by people using their religion/beliefs as a tool. Suicide bombers are a great example of this; they are told they will be rewarded in the afterlife for killing people.

[Vivienne]

Ok, suicide bombers are an example. Sorry, I'd misread! But what about catholicism? What do you think of that?

[Bruvva]

O here we go! Another one of life's great debates!! Bruvva, you are sad because your life will have to meaning. What purpose do you have to this life, if you believe in nothing!

My life has plenty of meaning, I like to think I make those close me to happy and enjoy living life to the full. Why should life have a purpose anyway? I also believe in plenty of things given the right evidence you know, like gravity. I'm still waiting for you to explain the "dangerous" allegation. Last time I looked, I'd killed less people than catholicism, for example.

[Vivienne]

So, you make people close to you happy! Already there is a purpose to your life, in that you have discovered the most important thing in life = other people. The "dangerous" allegation - I think a person who believes there is no purpose to this life is basically soul-less, and this is dangerous to you as a person.

[Console]

Bruvva, you are sad because your life will have to meaning. What purpose do you have to this life, if you believe in nothing!

Being atheist doesn't remove meaning from your life, any more that being theist adds meaning to your life. At worst (?), all it means is that there was never meaning to your life, and now you happen to believe the truth as opposed to believing a lie.

But what about catholicism? What do you think of that?

'Think of it' in what way? I think their beliefs are as invalid as any other religion (with the exception of 'Pastafarianism', of course).

[Vivienne]

or what about "Consolism"

[Console]

The "dangerous" allegation - I think a person who believes there is no purpose to this life is basically soul-less, and this is dangerous to you as a person.

Wouldn't a person that doesn't believe in a soul believe that everyone is 'soul-less'?

or what about "Consolism"

Never heard of it, but it does sound like a fantastic idea.

[Bruvva]

So, you make people close to you happy! Already there is a purpose to your life, in that you have discovered the most important thing in life = other people. The "dangerous" allegation - I think a person who believes there is no purpose to this life is basically soul-less, and this is dangerous to you as a person.

OK, but my caring about people has nothing to do with religion though and neither does the person who cares about nothing.

[Vivienne]

Consolism would not be a good idea, because it would believe life has no purpose, even though the Console character contradicts every aspect of this on an almost daily basis. You go running every day (up extremely early - why bother? You may as well stay in bed). Why work? Why contribute to society at all? There are a lot of beautiful things in this world, created by a higher power, and you miss this every time.

[Vivienne]

OK, but my caring about people has nothing to do with religion though and neither does the person who cares about nothing.

It does, you just don't see it. It's a higher good power at work in you as a person. [Quote fixed!]

[Console]

Consolism would not be a good idea, because it would believe life has no purpose, even though the Console character contradicts every aspect of this on an almost daily basis. You go running every day (up extremely early - why bother? You may as well stay in bed). Why work? Why contribute to society at all?

There's a difference between believing in meaning, and doing stuff because you're bored. As a human I can enjoy doing things, so I do things that I enjoy. I have given myself a purpose, does there need to be anymore?

[Vivienne]

But why give yourself a purpose if there is no point to this life? why get yourself fit? Why come on here every day? Why do anything?

[Console]

Just because there's not grand purpose of meaning to life, the universe and everything, doesn't mean that you can't give yourself one. If there's no point to life, then make one up (it's all that religion has done, after all).

OK, but my caring about people has nothing to do with religion though and neither does the person who cares about nothing.

It does, you just don't see it. It's a higher good power at work in you as a person.

That's called, seeing what you want to believe. There's not evidence for that, and it doesn't even make sense.

[MK Chris]

By "Catholicism", do you mean the Catholic Church that is one of the richest organisations in the world and has had known links to the mafia?

I consider myself to have good "Christian" values (in that I won't steal, kill, etc, etc) without actually believing in a deity. Why should a person only do good things because they believe they will go to hell if they don't? Surely you should do good things regardless.

[Bruvva]

It does, you just don't see it. It's a higher good power at work in you as a person.

Wait a minute, so God takes credit for whatever good I do but if I go on a mad killing spree and murder Will Smith then you religious types will say "ah but God created man and gave him free will so it's not God's fault".

You can't have it both ways. God is either responsible for ALL that we do or none of it.

[Vivienne]

So there's no grand purpose to life, yet you choose to give yourself one, thus contradicting everything you are currently saying. Why don't you just back down for once, and admit I am right.

[Vivienne]

It does, you just don't see it. It's a higher good power at work in you as a person.

Wait a minute, so God takes credit for whatever good I do but if I go on a mad killing spree and murder Will Smith then you religious types will say "ah but God created man and gave him free will so it's not God's fault".

You can't have it both ways. God is either responsible for ALL that we do or none of it.

Some would argue that dark forces are at work through people who choose to go on killing sprees. That's the thing about life. There's good and there's bad in everyone and everything. Also, I don't really care for the term "you religious types". I don't even go to church at all on a regular basis, but I still believe in a higher power.

[Console]

So there's no grand purpose to life, yet you choose to give yourself one, thus contradicting everything you are currently saying.

How is that contradictory? There isn't a purpose to life (set by God, the FSM, Ra, or whatever), so I gave myself a purpose (as I am infinitely more real than the afore mentioned deities).

[Vivienne]

By giving yourself a purpose, you are basically acknowledging that you are part of this life and the universe. Yet, one time, in a PM, you told me you didn't think there was anything to this life. Well, clearly you do, or you would just jump into the sea (please don't, btw).

[Console]

Some would argue that dark forces are at work through people who choose to go on killing sprees.

Some would argue that an all powerful God should be able to curb these darker forces, or at least break the firing pin on the uzi the soon-to-be-mass-killer is about to use.

[Vivienne]

With freedom to live this life, comes also the freedom for darker forces and lighter forces to exist in the world.

[Bruvva]

Some would argue that dark forces are at work through people who choose to go on killing sprees. That's the thing about life. There's good and there's bad in everyone and everything. Also, I don't really care for the term "you religious types". I don't even go to church at all on a regular basis, but I still believe in a higher power.

Either way that indicates that us as humans don't have much in the way of free will if anything good we do is governed by god and anything bad caused by demonic possession. I like to think that we're more than the mindless pawns in some kind of celestial chess match.

And,to expand Console's point, God created the universe whereas the Devil is just a fallen angel therefore he's more powerful so why does God allow the Devil to continue his work unless he actually wants people to commit hideous acts?

[Vivienne]

If there was only good stuff happening, you wouldn't appreciate good things happening to you, bruvva. I think certain bad things that happen are meant to be, for whatever reason.

[Console]

By giving yourself a purpose, you are basically acknowledging that you are part of this life and the universe.

I'm not sure what that means, but the atoms that make up my body are certainly part of the universe; I don't think I've ever denied that.

Yet, one time, in a PM, you told me you didn't think there was anything to this life.

I also said it here, there is not point, purpose or meaning to life.

Well, clearly you do, or you would just jump into the sea

Why would I do that? Having no meaning doesn't mean that things should just end.

With freedom to live this life, comes also the freedom for darker forces and lighter forces to exist in the world.

Freedom given by 'God', yes? How nice of him to create these dark forces then. The 'dark forces' that drive people to kill, torture and rape; sounds like God is a kid burning ants with a magnifying glass if you ask me, why would you want to believe in something like that?

If there was only good stuff happening, you wouldn't appreciate good things happening to you, bruvva. I think certain bad things that happen are meant to be, for whatever reason.

So it's technically a good thing that bad things happen then? So, when people are killed by suicide bombers, it only happens because someone else won the lottery? Very balanced.

"Without evil there can be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes."