[Nicola_Red]

Out of interest charlalottie, what made you go back to eating meat? was it just that you hadn't seen animal cruelty on the tv, so you had forgotten it happened?

I don't WANT to think about where my food has been. I'd rather not think of it as an animal with a face and a smile and feelings at all, I'd rather think of it as a bacon sandwich.

I do love the taset of meat (and soya's just no substitute) but I'm a sensitive sort really and so I don't want to associate the thing on my plate with being an animal at all.

Sorry Andy, I'm not trying to start a fight, but that's exactly the sort of head-in-the-sand attitude that I dislike so much. Are you content to go thru life in denial cos you're worried that if you faced up to the realities of chickens crammed in battery cages, pigs in concrete cells with their tails cut off and cows forced to produce ten times their natural milk yield whilst suffering from laminitis and mastitis, you'd be so horrified that your conscience wouldn't let you eat meat anymore?

I liked meat. Not all of it, but I liked sausages and bacon and burgers. I liked dairy - milk chocolate, cheese, eggs. But my spoiled human desires are nowhere near as important as the lives of innocent animals. They can't speak out for themselves, they need us to do it for them. I'm happy to go without all that stuff if my conscience is clearer in return.

/rant

[foot-loose]

I liked meat. Not all of it, but I liked sausages and bacon and burgers. I liked dairy - milk chocolate, cheese, eggs. But my spoiled human desires are nowhere near as important as the lives of innocent animals. They can't speak out for themselves, they need us to do it for them. I'm happy to go without all that stuff if my conscience is clearer in return.

Where would you stand on the subject if you 100% knew the animal had lived a good life?

I guess I am asking because if you look at the human species as another animal, it is not abnormal for that animal to hunt and kill another. I grant that there is an argument that we dont NEED to eat meat now - we can eat meat substitutes and get the nutrients from other sources. However, I personally don't see it as wrong to eat meat or to kill for food. I think the key problem lies around the welfare of the animals BEFORE they become food.

I will also say that everyone defines right and wrong in different ways so i'm not arguing with you, just asking.

[S4B]

I love meat but I prefer to know that the animal has had a happy life. We used to raise goats and rabbits for the table when I was a child (no quips about the dark ages!). I used to raise them, wean them and then went with them to the slaughter house. I think that everyone should be aware of what they are eating.

I understand vegetarianism but don't agree with it in most cases as many vegetarians don't have a balanced diet, just simply cut out meat. We have the teeth and digestive system for eating meat and to not do so is kind of going against nature.

**sits back and waits to get blasted by the vegetarians**

By the way Foots I thought this was going to be another thread about Lobsters!

[kendra k]

foots likes lobstahs!

yeah, when i became a vegetarian i just stopped eating meat but the rest of the diet remained the same...
oh wait, that'd be stupid.

[catherine]

I love meat, i love food. I buy my meat from the butcher and the other night my steak had a big fat vein going through it, i sort of ate around that and it did make me feel abit uneasy, kind of gave it a real living thing feel.

Alot of chefs can't stand vegetarians, mainly because meat gives alot of flavour in dishes so it is hard for them to find original dishes that are fab with out meat, fish and dairy.

[foot-loose]

I'm never getting involved with lobsters again.

I have learned that there are reasons why you pay a fortune in a restaurant for them.

[Andy B]

Nicola Red- may I ask how old you are, no reason, just curious.

Sadly yes I am content to live in denial. Sad but true I make no appologiea for it. But I will thrown in the "if it weren't for people like me it wouldn't be alive anyway argument here.

I do my bit for the planet, I'm making my whole company go carbon neutral, I always take public transport. I haven't flown in 6 years I turn my thermostat down by 1 degree. If I then choose to finish my day off with the first chicken I pick up in the supermarket because I haven't seen a local butchers shop on a high street for years, does that make a bad person?

There's only so much 1 man can do!

[Nicola_Red]

I'm coming up on 33, why d'you ask?

Where would you stand on the subject if you 100% knew the animal had lived a good life?

I guess I am asking because if you look at the human species as another animal, it is not abnormal for that animal to hunt and kill another. I grant that there is an argument that we dont NEED to eat meat now - we can eat meat substitutes and get the nutrients from other sources. However, I personally don't see it as wrong to eat meat or to kill for food. I think the key problem lies around the welfare of the animals BEFORE they become food.

To be honest I still would never eat an animal beause I don't ever want to be responsible for a death. I'm a very peaceful person and hate all violence - from computer games thru to the death penalty, it all makes me feel sick, and that includes the needless killing of animals. if an animal has died for me to have food on my plate that I can get from other sources, then to me that's morally reprehensible. Maybe if all animals were treated well I wouldn't have become veggie/vegan, but they're not so it's hard to say. I know others don't feel like this...it's just how I am.

Oh and S4B...it would be impossible to be a vegan, and very hard to be veggie, without adding new things to your diet. I'm pretty healthy after 16 yrs this way, and I make sure I get all my nutrients. Especially the B12 from Marmite!

[S4B]

Well most of the vegetarian I know do not and have not changed their diet other than remove meat from it!

[Andy B]

All the vegetarians I know including my sister and several work colleagues fart a lot and they're really smelly ones too! That kinda puts me off a bit.

[Yudster]

Vitamin B12 is one of the hardest things for vegetarians/vegans to replace in their diets, and all the vegans I know (all three of them! [not including kendra and nicola]) use supplements for this. However they were unaware that up to about ten years ago, the B12 supplements they had been taking were animal-derived. Labelling legislation should make that kind of nonsense a thing of the past.

I do also think that its true a lot of vegetarians are not very healthy. But so are an awful lot of meat eaters.......

[MK Chris]

I don't know what you mean..

[kendra k]

i take multivitamins now for vegetarians, but that was mostly because it was recommended during chemo. i'm not a paragon of health, but i know i am not malnourished.

[Nicola_Red]

Vitamin B12 is one of the hardest things for vegetarians/vegans to replace in their diets, and all the vegans I know (all three of them! [not including kendra and nicola]) use supplements for this. .....

I don't (I know you said that didn't include me!) I eat plenty of Marmite and some brands of soy milk are fortified with it. I don't have any symptoms of any deficiencies so I think I'm fine.