[Console]

It's in the interest of people's health and wellbeing.

How many people have their health/well-being adversely affected enough to warrant a total ban? Is it a particularly high percentage of drug-takers?

[Zoot]

It's not "Dictatorship"! It's in the interest of people's health and wellbeing. And, would cut costs on the NHS.

For the Greater good?

[Vivienne]

It's in the interest of people's health and wellbeing.

How many people have their health/well-being adversely affected enough to warrant a total ban? Is it a particularly high percentage of drug-takers?

Well, I'm one of them... 15 cups of the caffeine to 3/4... not a joke, I can assure you. Not funny. Did you know there's even caffeine in chocolate?

Anyhow, I posted that because I get SICK of the amount of druggies (with no self-discipline) who have to be re-habilitated in this country, who claim benefits from Job Centres because they "can't" work, who make areas to live in disgusting, who annoy other people, etc., etc. Same goes for alcoholics. Some action is needed.

[Zoot]

It's in the interest of people's health and wellbeing.

How many people have their health/well-being adversely affected enough to warrant a total ban? Is it a particularly high percentage of drug-takers?

Well, I'm one of them... 15 cups of the caffeine to 3/4... not a joke, I can assure you. Not funny. Did you know there's even caffeine in chocolate?

Anyhow, I posted that because I get SICK of the amount of druggies (with no self-discipline) who have to be re-habilitated in this country, who claim benefits from Job Centres because they "can't" work, who make areas to live in disgusting, who annoy other people, etc., etc. Same goes for alcoholics. Some action is needed.

Its not that easy Viv, you can't just go to an alcoholic or drug addict and say 'Stop it!' Addiction is an illness as much as any other mental affliction.

[Vivienne]

But surely the reason they began, Zoot, is because they didn't have the required discipline to not start abusing alcohol/taking drugs in the first place. Sorry, did someone force it down their throat? I don't think so.

[Console]

Anyhow, I posted that because I get SICK of the amount of druggies (with no self-discipline) who have to be re-habilitated in this country, who claim benefits from Job Centres because they "can't" work, who make areas to live in disgusting, who annoy other people, etc., etc. Same goes for alcoholics. Some action is needed.

Isn't that a generalisation? Also, how do you know that the drugs came before the unemployment and not the other way around?

Still, unless there's a particularly high percentage (as in above 5%) of people that are adversely affected then I can't see a reason to have a major crack-down on it. If it was banned for that reason, then driving should also be banned, as should sky-diving, swimming, rock-climbing, boxing, and extreme origami.

Sorry, did someone force it down their throat? I don't think so.

Did someone force all of that coffee down your throat?

[Zoot]

But surely the reason they began, Zoot, is because they didn't have the required discipline to not start abusing alcohol/taking drugs in the first place. Sorry, did someone force it down their throat? I don't think so.

What about those addicted to pain killers?
Yea i agree you can take a horse to water but you can't make it shoot up, which is where i think freely available advice and information is needed. But increasing the hold on drugs and drug dealers will just increase the street value and buy the dealers a bigger boat.

[Yudster]

Addiction is an illness as much as any other mental affliction.

Hmmm. I know this is the "correct" thing to say, but having been at the sharp end of tragically addictive behaviour, I'm not so sure it's always true. I believe that a lot of the time addiction is a symptom of illness - often (usually?) mental illness - rather than being the illness itself. Have to say that my understanding of chemical addiction is a lot less than my understanding of alcohol addiction though, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is less similarity than you might think between the two groups.

Legalising? Banning? I have no idea. It's interesting though that although my life has been directly and permanently affected by alcohol addiction, I feel far more strongly about drug use than I do about alcohol. I really don't know why that is.

[Vivienne]

Console! NO, someone did not force all the caffeine down my throat? I DID!! And I have taken responsibility for that.

I don't think it is a generalisation, Console. We, in this country, look at "global warming!" when we really need to look at crime rates, and how we can solve them. We need to give druggies a kick up the arse, with no excuses. This is what's wrong: druggies are given rehabilitation (costs), benefits from job Centres (costs); housing (costs). Now, the victims that they may leave behind when they do something to them when they are out-of-control? Well, the answer is they have to fight MUCH harder for any help. This IS the reality.

A druggie drew on my parents' wall (opposite their house) in big letters in WHITE PAINT. No particular reason, or anything. And who had to sort all that out? My mum & dad (who are both OAPs).

[Vivienne]

Addiction is an illness as much as any other mental affliction.

Hmmm. I know this is the "correct" thing to say, but having been at the sharp end of tragically addictive behaviour, I'm not so sure it's always true. I believe that a lot of the time addiction is a symptom of illness - often (usually?) mental illness - rather than being the illness itself. Have to say that my understanding of chemical addiction is a lot less than my understanding of alcohol addiction though, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is less similarity than you might think between the two groups.

Legalising? Banning? I have no idea. It's interesting though that although my life has been directly and permanently affected by alcohol addiction, I feel far more strongly about drug use than I do about alcohol. I really don't know why that is.

Like you, I feel more strongly because I've been at the sharp end, as a victim of crime though. The amount of time you can take to get counselling on the NHS, and reluctance to send people for counselling you would not believe. I had to go to R1's Sunday Surgery Team, and they were pretty much the only thing that kept me going.

[Console]

We, in this country, look at "global warming!" when we really need to look at crime rates, and how we can solve them.

You mean 'Global Warming', the thing that could potentially destroy all life as we know it? I can't imagine why that would get more attention. Saying that though, does it get more attention?

This is what's wrong: druggies are given rehabilitation (costs), benefits from job Centres (costs); housing (costs).

How many 'druggies' actually get rehabilitation on the NHS, though, and it it a significant percentage of the total drug users? How much does all of the rehabilitations and benefits cost the tax-payer?

Now, the victims that they may leave behind when they do something to them when they are out-of-control?

Are you asking about the families of the people that may die from an over-dose, or other drug-related problem? Don't more people get killed from car related incidents than die from drug overdoses?

A druggie drew on my parents' wall (opposite their house) in big letters in WHITE PAINT. No particular reason, or anything. And who had to sort all that out? My mum & dad (who are both OAPs).

I have no hard data, but I would think that most people that graffiti on walls aren't on drugs while they're doing it.

I don't disagree that there are some people, that are on drugs, that cause problems for society, but unless they're a significant proportion of the people that take drugs, then that's not a good enough reason to make drugs completely illegal.

[Vivienne]

God, you're annoying! I don't have statistics, NO!! I just need to open my eyes, and see that things seem to be getting worse & worse. I think this "global warming" thing seems to have taken over, to avoid focusing on crime, etc. Alan Sugar, btw, agrees with me.

[MK Chris]

I think rehabilitation is the answer. Treating them like a criminal is not. Again, if you legalised drugs, there would be no need for underground drug pushers and it could be taxed and controlled and people would be less hesitant about getting help for their addictions, in addition to not having to turn to crime in order to pay their dealers. To me that's a win-win situation.

[Vivienne]

But treating victims like a criminal is OK?

[MK Chris]

No, treating victims like a criminal is not OK, I never said that. In a lot of cases, the addicts are victims in my opinion.

[Vivienne]

Yeah, let's feel really sorry for the poor addicts.

[Yudster]

But treating victims like a criminal is OK?

To be fair, I think that's a whole other subject. An important one, but a different one.

[Vivienne]

I think it's all intertwined. These people cause others to suffer. Anyhow, I have to go and get my hair fixed.

[Console]

I just need to open my eyes, and see that things seem to be getting worse & worse.

I thought that I had a pretty dim view of society, but I don't think it's as dim as yours. I can't see things getting worse & worse, what have you seen/heard/read/etc that makes you believe that currently-illegal drugs are to blame for this apparent worsening?

I think this "global warming" thing seems to have taken over, to avoid focusing on crime, etc.

I don't think that it has overtaken the everyday society problems. What does that actually have to do with drug-users though? I think that that is the first time that global warming and drug-taking have been connected in that way.

Alan Sugar, btw, agrees with me.

Whose Alan Sugar? I think Chris Cake agrees with me.

[MK Chris]

Yeah, let's feel really sorry for the poor addicts.

Not always but sometimes; you can't tar everyone with the same brush.

People fall in the the wrong crowds and if you're the type of person who is easily led, you may be led to an addiction that isn't entirely your fault. If that then spirals out of control and they have no one to turn to, they have to fund the habit and pay the real criminals, the people who got them hooked in the first place. This causes them to turn to crime, prostitution, etc.

[Yudster]

That's true - you see the way some people live in order to feed their habits and you can't possibly imagine that they are actually CHOOSING that. But that doesn't mean that they don't have a choice. Problem is, sometimes the ability to actually MAKE a choice gets lost in all the crap you have to deal with on an ongoing, everyday basis. The longer you going on like that, the worse the crap gets and the more submenrged your "normal" responses become - I know that not everyone who tries drugs ends up like that, any more than everyone who has a glass of wine ends up an alcoholic, but the social problems associated with these issues do seem to be increasing (based on general observation, not statistics) and something has got to give somewhere along the line.

[pjordan2000]

I agree with Topher that if all drugs were legalised then having control over it would reduce crime dramatically.

Is that in the same way that if stealing was legalised then it too would reduce crime dramatically?

Technically yes, as it would not be considered a crime however the acitivity itself would not. It just wouldn't be classified as a crime

[iain_smith]

In case the police are reading this I was j oking.I do not ,and have never,smoked cannabis.Honest.

[foot-loose]

It's not "Dictatorship"! It's in the interest of people's health and wellbeing. And, would cut costs on the NHS.

For the Greater good?

... the greater good!


(sorry I wasn't here quicker)

[Zoot]

It's not "Dictatorship"! It's in the interest of people's health and wellbeing. And, would cut costs on the NHS.

For the Greater good?

... the greater good!


(sorry I wasn't here quicker)

I just wanted you to know, we were all counting on you.