[cjedj]

cjedj.. you are clearly taking this a bit too seriously. You are able to get round appearing to be from foreign lands by using proxies if you wish, why not just consider that instead.

I already do that - what I'm looking for is clarity about why I have to, which I think we are slowly getting to.

Maybe I am taking this too seriously for you, but it is an important question which the BBC have so far not properly addressed. If this forum is the wrong place to raise it, then I apologise for having bothered you. However, to his credit, Aled has come closer than any BBC employee I've yet read to answering this point, and he chose to do so on here, which is why I chose to carry on the debate on here.

My personal view is that if you think I'm taking it too seriously then that's up to you, however that doesn't make the discussion any less valid. Nevertheless, if you prefer, I'm quite happy to take it elsewhere - the hierarchy on this board is well established, and I don't want to annoy the veterans. Let me know.

[BigApeLikeThing]

Well, that started a discussion.

Thanks everyone, especialy Aled for taking the time to reply.

It seems to me it is the ex-pats that miss this stuff the most, the people that cannot access it. While i'm stuck in the cultural void that is Australia (you really have never heard radio like it, simply awful), I indeed do not pay for a licence but I would pay a subscription to access this sort of content, such as the Iplayer. I'd welcome the chance.

As for proxies, I've tried them & they don't work, as you still ultimately go through your service provider who does not hide their location. I hope you can prove me wrong....

Well, later,

Ape

[Yudster]

.......... I indeed do not pay for a licence but I would pay a subscription to access this sort of content, such as the Iplayer. I'd welcome the chance.

I've been wondering about this - it seems like a relatively easy option. I wonder why it isn't one?

[Console]

As for proxies, I've tried them & they don't work, as you still ultimately go through your service provider who does not hide their location. I hope you can prove me wrong....

You are wrong. A proper SOCKS proxy server (located in the UK) will allow you to access all of the BBC content. You're probably only using an HTTP proxy or possibly just a web proxy, both of which are inadequate for the task as they only work on the http protocol, whereas the streaming media either uses rtsp (mostly for audio) or rtmp (for most video).

[BigApeLikeThing]

Yudster - Yes, strange that an obvious revenue raiser like a subscription based service isn't there. Thank god I can get podcasts & streaming audio though.

Console - That's just the sort of answer I was hoping for. Feel free to elaborate here or via a personal message with any SOCKS proxy server examples.

Ape

[Console]

The only SOCKS server that I know of (located in the UK) is mine, and the bandwidth isn't really good enough for other people to use it concurrently (and streaming with it is definitely out).

[BigApeLikeThing]

Oh well, thanks anyway.

Ape

[cjedj]

As for proxies, I've tried them & they don't work, as you still ultimately go through your service provider who does not hide their location. I hope you can prove me wrong....

You are wrong. A proper SOCKS proxy server (located in the UK) will allow you to access all of the BBC content. You're probably only using an HTTP proxy or possibly just a web proxy, both of which are inadequate for the task as they only work on the http protocol, whereas the streaming media either uses rtsp (mostly for audio) or rtmp (for most video).

I can confirm this. Google, as always, is your friend...

[Aled]

The only other option is ads for international audience.

[cjedj]

The only other option is ads for international audience.

Sounds good to me, or a subscription, but I'd be surprised if that wouldn't be in conflict with another BBC policy - although that is pure guesswork on my part.

[MK Chris]

Surely if it were done in conjunction with BBC Worldwide, isn't that the commercial subsidiary of the BBC?

[Andy B]

The only other option is ads for international audience.

Last I heard the BBC were putting Ads on BBC websites but they were only there if you were coming from outside the UK so it sounds like a good plan.

Right then so it's decided...adverts on the video clips for the foreigners so the BBC can pay for extra bandwidth then...

Aled you can arrange that, I hereby temporarily appoint you Director Generalissimo.

[cjedj]

...
Right then so it's decided...adverts on the video clips for the foreigners
...

And of course the British who are overseas, right?

[Andy B]

Well depends...if you pay your licence but happen to be on holiday then you should be given special dispensation in the forb of a USB Key fob thing with the Union Jack on it that you just put into a computer so you can access all the proper British stuff....that'd work....Console, make one of those for Mr Cjedj

[Console]

Well depends...if you pay your licence but happen to be on holiday then you should be given special dispensation in the forb of a USB Key fob thing with the Union Jack on it that you just put into a computer so you can access all the proper British stuff....that'd work.

It wouldn't work, I'd give it a week at most until the system is broken and the entire world can access everything without hindrance.

[AdrianL]

I agree about the proxy idea. I'm in New Zealand, and I've just watched the CMS week of video compilations by using a UK-based proxy address. This proxy doesn't work for the full iPlayer, though.

Adrian

Wellington
NZ

[BigApeLikeThing]

When I watch news clips on the BBC website, I usually have to watch one advert before each clip, usually the same advert. It really becomes a pain.

I guess I would put up with it to watch decent content but the main draw of the BBC for me is that they are commercial free. I'd rather pay a subscription, or pay for the shows I want to see, than have to sit through ads.

[cjedj]

Well depends...if you pay your licence but happen to be on holiday then you should be given special dispensation in the forb of a USB Key fob thing with the Union Jack on it that you just put into a computer so you can access all the proper British stuff....that'd work.

It wouldn't work, I'd give it a week at most until the system is broken and the entire world can access everything without hindrance.

They already can. I like the idea of my own UJ key fob though, put me on the list

Looks like the debate has now moved from whether overseas viewers should be given to access to how - subscription / advertising etc.

Interesting shift - I wonder if the BBC would take any notice?

[BigApeLikeThing]

I have tried asking the BBC about this via e-mail but they don't answer, obviously due to the quantity of mails they get.

In Australia, the only non-commercial TV channel, ABC, shows a lot of BBC content, which I'm very grateful for. If I was stuck in somewhere like the USA, where the BBC content must be minimal, I'd be begging to pay for access to the BBC.

I've traveled a bit & I'm very proud of the BBC, we are lucky to have it & it must be the worlds best broadcasting corporation. Well worth the license fee.

There must be millions of ex-pats who would pay good money to watch BBC shows.

Ape

[cjedj]

Sorry to resurrect this topic, but I've just been onto the R1 website and looked at the videos from Fearne and Reggie at the Download Festival. These are formatted in the iPlayer format, and are freely viewable from an overseas IP address, no proxies needed.

So how come Moyles and the Big Weekend iPlayer stuff was barred outside the UK, and this isn't?

This represents exactly the point I was trying to make earlier in the thread, about an inconsistent application of a policy which is already unclear.

Whilst it's great to have access to these videos outside the UK, the question remains - why is it possible for these and not for others...?

[Console]

These are formatted in the iPlayer format, and are freely viewable from an overseas IP address, no proxies needed.

It may look like the iPlayer system, but it's actually running off of a different backend. All of the iPlayer videos are hosted on Akamai's servers, whereas those download festival videos are hosted on the BBC server - they're obviously not anticipating much traffic for them.

[cjedj]

Interesting info on the different servers, thanks.

However I still don't understand how they are choosing to apply the policy, or indeed if there is one. The inference here seems to be, if they are not expecting much traffic, then they make it available overseas, meaning that there is no rights problem, it's just a cost consideration. But who decides that, and how? Or is it just on a case by case basis I wonder?

Or perhaps it's tiered, e.g. IF there is no copyright problem, AND they expect low traffic, then it's available overseas, but IF there is a copyright issue AND/OR a risk of high traffic and therefore high costs, then it's blocked. Who knows? (And I don't mean that rhetorically!)

I just wish there was a way to get a clear answer to this rather than just speculating on a forum. Surely the BBC must make this information available somewhere - if indeed there is documented decision or process for it.

[S4B]

Why don't you ask them then rather than asking on here?

As far as I'm concerned you don't pay a licence fee so you shouldn't have access to any of it without contributing!

[cjedj]

Why don't you ask them then rather than asking on here?

As far as I'm concerned you don't pay a licence fee so you shouldn't have access to any of it without contributing!

Why don't you stop making assumptions?

Not that it has anything to do with you, but I am having the same discussion on two BBC boards and have also emailed them on the subject. The reason I am also carrying on the discussion on here is because Aled was happy to contribute to it (actually more constructively than anyone else from the BBC has done so far), and it is relevant to the CMS, given the amount and variety of online content they provide.

Secondly, how do you know whether I pay a license fee or not? It is perfectly possible to spend time overseas for extended periods while still being a UK resident. Clearly not in your world, but perhaps you need to take into account that not everybody leads the same life as you. I'm certainly not going to start discussing my personal situation regarding that on a public forum, but that is no reason for you to jump to conclusions about it.

Thirdly, regarding what content should be available to non-licence fee payers in general, if you'd taken the trouble to read through the discussion, you would have seen that the issue is not as black and white as your simplistic statement tries to make it sound.

[S4B]

Why don't you ask them then rather than asking on here?

As far as I'm concerned you don't pay a licence fee so you shouldn't have access to any of it without contributing!

Why don't you stop making assumptions?

It wasn't an assumption is was my opinion

Not that it has anything to do with you, but I am having the same discussion on two BBC boards and have also emailed them on the subject. The reason I am also carrying on the discussion on here is because Aled was happy to contribute to it (actually more constructively than anyone else from the BBC has done so far), and it is relevant to the CMS, given the amount and variety of online content they provide.

If it has nothing to do with me why post this on a public forum where you are inviting discussion.

Why not just email the BBC and discuss it directly rather than discussing it on a forum especially if you are a licence payer as you try to intimate

Secondly, how do you know whether I pay a license fee or not? It is perfectly possible to spend time overseas for extended periods while still being a UK resident. Clearly not in your world, but perhaps you need to take into account that not everybody leads the same life as you. I'm certainly not going to start discussing my personal situation regarding that on a public forum, but that is no reason for you to jump to conclusions about it.

Again I was stating that if you don't pay a licence fee then you shouldn't be allowed access to the content. As for spending extended periods abroad and still being a UK resident, I do indeed know what you are talking about as my sister has lived abroad for 5 years and is still a UK resident, she is not, however, paying for a UK TV Licence. If you are indeed paying for one while living abroad then you are probably very stupid as you are now aware that you can't have access to all the benefits that owning one brings. Ex Pats who want their cake and eat it too annoy me (I am not saying you are an ex pat, this is purely my opinion on ex pats)

Thirdly, regarding what content should be available to non-licence fee payers in general, if you'd taken the trouble to read through the discussion, you would have seen that the issue is not as black and white as your simplistic statement tries to make it sound.

I have read through the entire discussion. I am perfectly aware it's not black and white. My statement, which is purely my opinion, is that it damn well should be! Pay for a TV licence = get the benefits! If you are paying for one then you should indeed be allowed the benefits, if not then you shouldn't.

On a final note never assume that someone who posts an opinion is either stupid or that their opinion is not valid unless you have actually thought through what they have said! I find that arrogant and extremely rude!