[ladbroke]

I'm in no way a bunny hugger and I don't agree with the whole smiling thing, but why is it ludicrous to assume animals can experience pleasure? If they have the capacity to suffer (and they clearly do), why can't they have the reverse?

totally agree. They can lick their own bollocks, who wouldn't be happy with that?

[MK Chris]

I was reading a blog recently that was making a different point to this, but basically agreed with me about animals feeling pain... wish I could find it now!

[MK Chris]

Found it! Knew it was somewhere. It's an interesting post actually. I know it centres around pain rather than the other way round, but if they can feel pain I don't see why the same isn't true for positive feelings.

[Boboff]

Found it! Knew it was somewhere. It's an interesting post actually. I know it centres around pain rather than the other way round, but if they can feel pain I don't see why the same isn't true for positive feelings.

Toph I really respect your surfing ability, you find things which are so totally obscure, interesting too.

[MK Chris]

You mean "you're such a sad *, get a life"?

I do like that bloke though, I agree with a lot of his views.

[Yudster]

I'm in no way a bunny hugger and I don't agree with the whole smiling thing, but why is it ludicrous to assume animals can experience pleasure? If they have the capacity to suffer (and they clearly do), why can't they have the reverse?

Of course they can experience pain and they can also experience absence of pain, the mistake is to associate purely human emotions to those experiences. There are more differences between humans and animals than things like opposable thumbs and spoken language.

Ah for * sake, the deeper I get into this argument the more I realise I really don't agree with what I'm arguing at all. It might be scientifically accurate (I have been assured by one who ought to know that it is) - but sod that, when I was a kid I had a dog who used to get as excited and giddy about Christmas as any child I've ever met. As soon as the tree went up and there were presents around, every morning he'd wriggle around and go to the tree and look at it, then look back at you and you just know he was asking "is it today?! is it today?!" Bollocks, you're all right and I'm wrong. Again.

[Boboff]

It takes are real man to admit that.

Well done.


*completes the patronization with a gentle touch of Yuds forearm.

[MK Chris]

Ha, Yudster's post made me smile (not because I was right, although that doesn't happen very often, it just did.)

[Yudster]

Aw shurrup.

[shamrock student]

What's making you smile/laugh today?

This Moyles video on youtube that i've never come across before, from the time of the Annie Mac/Moyles feud rumours
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXwWhPpi ... annel_page

[foot-loose]

Ah for * sake, the deeper I get into this argument the more I realise I really don't agree with what I'm arguing at all. It might be scientifically accurate (I have been assured by one who ought to know that it is) - but sod that, when I was a kid I had a dog who used to get as excited and giddy about Christmas as any child I've ever met. As soon as the tree went up and there were presents around, every morning he'd wriggle around and go to the tree and look at it, then look back at you and you just know he was asking "is it today?! is it today?!" Bollocks, you're all right and I'm wrong. Again.

Now why didn't you say that the last time we had this discussion??

[Sunny So Cal]

Hahaha Yuds you just made my day. Well, that and the video - despite the glaring spelling error in it. Thanks for posting that, bob.

[Yudster]

Ah for * sake, the deeper I get into this argument the more I realise I really don't agree with what I'm arguing at all. It might be scientifically accurate (I have been assured by one who ought to know that it is) - but sod that, when I was a kid I had a dog who used to get as excited and giddy about Christmas as any child I've ever met. As soon as the tree went up and there were presents around, every morning he'd wriggle around and go to the tree and look at it, then look back at you and you just know he was asking "is it today?! is it today?!" Bollocks, you're all right and I'm wrong. Again.

Now why didn't you say that the last time we had this discussion??

Because I like discussing with you.

[foot-loose]

That is as good a reason as any I guess.

[MK Chris]

It might be scientifically accurate (I have been assured by one who ought to know that it is)

I am normally one to go with scientific theory, but the great thing about science is that it's always striving to prove itself right or wrong - which means it's not always right. Scientific theory gets better and better, but can never be 100% accurate.

[foot-loose]

It might be scientifically accurate (I have been assured by one who ought to know that it is)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/ne ... 770676.stm

[Andy B]

How anyone could look at my dogs and my mum's dog and observe them when they're in their own then when I walk in and then say they can't display emotion is beyond be. Teddy (my mum's dog) Is the most excited bundle of fur on the planet when I turn up. My two are a close second.

Also I read a thing that apparently proves that dogs can get jealous. And it was on the BBC so there!

Other than that. Merry Everybody.

[Munki Bhoy]

Also I read a thing that apparently proves that dogs can get jealous. And it was on the BBC so there!

Watch how a dog reacts when a baby arrives in a family. That's enough proof for me that dogs can be jealous.

[Munki Bhoy]

Making me smile today - just as soon as I finish up work here (everyone else has gone home for Christmas but I'm stuck here doing client out of hours stuff... it was either that or 11pm last night) I will be off work until the return of the Chris Moyles show.

Yup, January 12th!

[Yudster]

Also I read a thing that apparently proves that dogs can get jealous. And it was on the BBC so there!

Watch how a dog reacts when a baby arrives in a family. That's enough proof for me that dogs can be jealous.

But thats not jealousy - its a pack reaction, in a dog pack the older more senior dogs will, if they can, kill the puppies so that they don't grow up to be a threat to them.

It might be scientifically accurate (I have been assured by one who ought to know that it is)

I am normally one to go with scientific theory, but the great thing about science is that it's always striving to prove itself right or wrong - which means it's not always right. Scientific theory gets better and better, but can never be 100% accurate.

Absolutely. The person I asked is a vet who has studied (for a PhD? Can't remember) pet behaviour - but I don't think you can apply the science without also applying the experience. The two don't always match up.

[foot-loose]

It might be scientifically accurate (I have been assured by one who ought to know that it is)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/ne ... 770676.stm

Has anyone actually clicked on this?

[Sunny So Cal]

I'm sure she did click on it, too, but she does so like discussing and calling us bunny huggers.

[MK Chris]

It might be scientifically accurate (I have been assured by one who ought to know that it is)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/ne ... 770676.stm

Has anyone actually clicked on this?

I did click on it (though I didn't listen, I just read the caption underneath) - it would appear to be a psychological theory, which is different to a scientific theory.

[foot-loose]

How, exactly, do you scientifically prove or disprove an emotion?

[Munki Bhoy]

Also I read a thing that apparently proves that dogs can get jealous. And it was on the BBC so there!

Watch how a dog reacts when a baby arrives in a family. That's enough proof for me that dogs can be jealous.

But thats not jealousy - its a pack reaction, in a dog pack the older more senior dogs will, if they can, kill the puppies so that they don't grow up to be a threat to them.

Which would be fine if they ate the baby, but any I've seen try to attention seek more to get attention away from the baby.

Another example would be the dog jumping in when you're sitting on the couch snuggling up to your loved one.

Although you could argue that jealousy in humans is just pack behaviour too!