[Nicola_Red]

Firstly apologies if this is already in another thread - I only have a spare minute to browse the site today but I really wanted to hear other people's opinions on this. What did everyone think about this part of the show? I was honestly shocked that Chris said this in all seriousness. It's only a few years ago that I did live on less than 10 grand - admittedly not in London, but I lived on my own in a flat, not with my parents. I now earn 12 and a bit (before tax), and I think I'm reasonably okay - I struggle sometimes, but I'm hardly in poverty. Is Chris just naive or has he been earning good money for so long that he's lost sight of how real people live? Any thoughts?

[Munki Bhoy]

He was probably right about trying to live on that in London. But London appears to be a special case in this country where the average wage and the average cost of living are higher than the rest (pretty much evens out in the end)

But I thought he was very poorly making the point about wages being crap. Certainly the minimum wage sucks.

I wouldn't say it was "impossible" to live on 10 grand a year, but you yourself are saying you earn more than that and struggle sometimes. Impossible is probably an exaggeration. * hard would be closer to the truth.

[Latina]

I agree with Munki, although I had switched off (my ears that is) for most of it and only paid attention when he started ranting in response to the texter. He may have been exagerrating a bit, but it would be bloody hard to live on 10k anywhere, let alone London, unless you have some sort of advantage i.e. a landlord who had no idea about normal rent costs.

Think about it, that's £200 per week to cover food, bills, rent, clothes, council tax, everything (I'm assuming he meant 10k net?). I'm sure it's possible as long as you pay for nothing that isn't essential, and I know there are many people who do, but it wouldn't be easy.

I have no idea of the context though, and the context would probably explain why he was so adamant about it.

Actually, how much does one who is unemployed (assuming they get everything they are entitled to) receive in benefits, waivers etc? I guess that would be an important point.

[Johnny 1989]

What happened this morning for him to say that in the first place, I missed it this morning

As for living on £10k a year in London, it is virtually impossible in most parts of these days I'm afraid

[Lactating Man Nips]

Got onto the subject of Chico and what he's actually doing now. Suggestions were that he was doing p.a. stuff and panto which was questioned as to how much that bought in if that was his sole source of income, 10k? 12k? Included some awkward sneering that Aled tried to deflect.

[dimtimjim]

Yeah, I did think this was a little insensative, and did whiff a little of someone who has been paid fairly well for a while now. Anyone who has read Chris' books will know he passed the £50k p.a. a long, long time ago. I know Chris is relativly down to earth with his money, but there comes a point where you think about things differently, and Chris is past that point.

I do think he has a very valid point on London life. Outa the big smoke is another story, although nowhere would £10k p.a. bring you a lavish lifestyle.

Was a slightly cringeworthy link though.....

[Latina]

Yeah, I do think he made a mistake, even if it wasn't entirely innacurate. Not the worst thing he could have said though, and I think it was probably an easy mistake to make as well.

[chrysostom]

Very cringeworthy - Of £800 a month i'm guessing at the very least £400 would go toward rent, leaving £100 a week for food, clothes, socialising, transport etc.

possible?

probably - but would not be comfortable in the slightest...would it?

would leave no scope for savings, which would mean that any significant purchase would require going into debt - and any excess money would end up being transferred to paying that debt off. i would find that impossible,

[daveisshiny]

I've not heard Chris say this yet as i'm quite far behind in my catch up listening, but I've never been on silly money and I don't think I could live on 10k a year (assuming no benefits). Maybe the north south divide comes into play here and it might be possible (although not comfortable) to do it in the midlands northwards, and not when you travel further south?

Also I don't begrudge Chris earning a fair amount because a lot of it will go to the government to supplement those who don't earn quite so much and because he seems like a decent guy. However a quick Google found me this article from April 2006 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4919678.stm and that figure of 630k made me balk a little. If there's a minimum wage of somethink like £5.75 an hour or whatever it is there should be a maximum wage that's capped at something like 200k (a completely unthought out idea). Could anyone living off 10k a year come up with sensible ways to spend more than 200k?

[lurker]

Hate to say it, but even though I think he's down to earth and I'm a fan, I think his comments show that perhaps he is a little out of touch when it comes to money. Many people like those on benefits or those unemployed have to survive on 10 grand a year - even less. It's not very nice, and it's hard, but it's possible. It's probably not possible in London though, so he's right about that

Or by 'impossible' he might mean 'nobody should ever have to', in which case he's dead right

[MK Chris]

£400 would go toward rent

In London? Are you kidding?

[chrysostom]

i was speaking outside of london, what would it be inside? £5-600?

[dimtimjim]

Yeah, I know someone in London paying roughly that for a room in shared accom, bills n tax all in..... So, leaving £50 per week for everything else. Given that a can o coke in london is approx £3.50, i'd say that ain't gonna go around. Nah, £10K in London with no benefits - aint happening.

[chrysostom]

If there's a minimum wage of somethink like £5.75 an hour or whatever it is there should be a maximum wage that's capped at something like 200k (a completely unthought out idea).

unthought out idea indeed. similar to the football wage argument - implimenting a maximum wage would only benefit the corporations which have to pay those wages, and would lead to their profit margins rocketing.

If the money isn't passed down, then it doesn't make everything cheaper - it just makes the company more wealthy.

If the money is there, and being put into the system then why shouldn't it go to the most valuable assets that the company has?

Also this would mean that an individual who runs his own business is surely being capped at how successful his business can be, unless he uses loopholes in asset management etc - meaning that is what everyone will use, rendering the system useless.

[MK Chris]

I think saying that living alone anywhere on £10,000 is nigh on impossible is pretty on the money if I'm honest.

[Yudster]

Matt Fincham has an Assistant Producer's salary (which might be peanuts relative to some other BBC posts, but must surely be at least twice what Chris was talking about this morning) and he has a room-mate. As does Aled (I think?), on presumably even more money, and Scott Mills, presumably on more again. If Chris was basing his assumption on how people he knows (with salaries that he is probably at least vaguely aware of) are living, I'd say it was a reasonable thing to say. I know people on between 10-15k a year who can just about manage in not-very-nice shared accommodation, but realistically, that kind of salary isn't usually attached to any kind of job that you would expect to have to support yourself or your family on, its surely more often either a "first job" scenario or a second income.

I'm still not quite sure how what Chris said has managed to cause anyone offense though, all he was saying is that £10k pa is a low salary, and you can't really argue with that.

[daveisshiny]

implimenting a maximum wage would only benefit the corporations which have to pay those wages, and would lead to their profit margins rocketing.

If the money is there, and being put into the system then why shouldn't it go to the most valuable assets that the company has?

Maybe with the wage cap the new ultra rich companies would have nothing to complain about when the minimum wage doubles or trebles? I can't/can't be bothered to source my numbers but isn't the disparity between the top earners and the bottom earners in the UK so huge that this would actually be feasible? People being the most vaulable asset a company has n all...

Also this would mean that an individual who runs his own business is surely being capped at how successful his business can be, unless he uses loopholes in asset management etc - meaning that is what everyone will use, rendering the system useless.

The owner of a business has no incentive wage-wise to produce a more efficient business once he reaches his wage cap? Surely there's an ego factor that will come into play, the bigger the business the bigger the ego boost? Plus possibly the bigger the business the more secure his salary would be. Plus the wage cap might promote less riskier and more sustainable growth if there's no financial gain which might have prevented some of the crisis the world has suffered recently? Maybe my idea would mean an end to massive companies and bring about more smaller companies and more competition. Which is apparently beneficial to the consumer. Plus there must be some moral satisfaction to be had from paying everyone a wage they can live comfortably off?

Anyway, i'm not an economist and no-one likes a socialist so back on topic. I wasn't offended by what Chris said.

[Nicola_Red]

Just to clarify...I wasn't exactly offended...but I was shocked that Chris honestly believes that. After all, he didn't say "that would be a real struggle" or similar, he dismissed it as "impossible", as if nobody in the country could be doing it, and a hell of a lot are.

He didn't clarify at first whether he meant living in or out of London, and I'm not daft, I know about London weighting. When I earned about 9 before tax, I lived alone in a council flat, which was a nice big place in a middling area. I had to budget seriously on food and didn't buy clothes etc, but I still wouldn't have said I was in poverty. I certainly earned too much to qualify for any government help. Now I live in a lovely and newly built city centre flat, I have a roommate which I have no problems with at all, and I can usually afford to buy myself a couple of treats a month - clothes, makeup or whatever. To me that's a reasonable standard of living.

I agree with the assertion that 10 grand is a crap salary, and I'm definitely not saying I begrudge Chris the money he earns - that would be pretty stupid, he's worked hard to get where he is, and I love the show. But I really thought he showed himself to be naive and out of touch to the way a lot of people live. It's not something I normally expect from him!

[chrysostom]

so giving more money to everyone helps?

ever thought that the top earners deserve their massive wage?

also you neatly avoided the main point - if a person started a business that somehow turned over more then 200k in a year, they would have to stop their business. it's simply not faesable in the slightest.

[Johnny 1989]

i was speaking outside of london, what would it be inside? £5-600?

All depends on the postcode, some place are £1500 a month in a one bedroom flat!

[English Bob]

Chris' comments did annoy me, mainly as I earn about 11 grand and a bit. I have few outgoings though, as I'm doing this job as a filler to save money to go travelling, but still, I did find the comments a bit stupid.

Then when he tried to backpedal by exclaiming 'I took a pay cut you know!' (which I've heard him say many times before) it was just cringeworthy. A paycut Chris? Oh you poor thing...how much of your £500k a year salary did they cut?

[anteater73]

In 2008 the average gross salary in the UK was 25K which is roughly what I'm on and I live in the North of England. So maybe Chris has a point......

[jt78963]

Out of interest how much is a can of Coke in London? And what is this 'room mate' thing you speak of?

[Nicola_Red]

If his point were that 10k is a crap salary I'd accept that. His dismissal of living on it as "impossible" - the incredulity in his voice, as if people who earn that and survive simply don't exist - is what I don't accept. Maybe I'll relisten to this on the iplayer and see if I change my feelings on it at all.

[DannyBoy]

i find it tough to live on 10K a month