[SCornelius7mufc]

Whilst they are tradition for South African football, they are a nuisance and destroy any potential atmosphere in the games.

The sooner they are banned in the ground, the better.

[John22]

I found myself tuning into them after about five minutes, personally, and it's not just in South Africa.

[SAV1OUR]

I'm all for horns adding flavour to life, but enough is enough, it's like a thousand games of CPC happening all at once.

Could be worse, could sound like the Quiz Elephant.

[chrysostom]

"When people come here, they should adapt in part to our culture"

"WHAT ARE THESE BLOODY HORNS?! - BAN THEM"

they're symbolic of african football, this is an african world cup. they may annoy you - and a ban (whilst it may be a good idea), would still be like FIFA saying, we want people to get a taste of African football support - but only to an extent.

Perhaps we don't understand the appeal, but it's not our culture. Have your opinions, but brandishing them in a matter of fact way kind of takes away the respect for the hosts.

[MK Chris]

You get used to it after a while I find.

[Yudster]

I think if they get banned it won't be because people are complaining, but it might be because the majority of people who watch the World Cup on telly aren't all that bothered about football, they're watching because its the World Cup. And to be honest, if you aren't a real footie fan, that horrible noise is enough to make anyone turn off. If the viewing figures go down the revenues go down - that might be enough to force someone's hand.

Personally I do like football and I would normally watch pretty much any match that's available, but I can't watch the World Cup because the noise just dominates everything eles that's going on in the ground, you can't hear the fans at all. Its not just that the noise is so horrible, it removes the atmosphere from the match completely. You can't even hear the supporters when their team scores or anything.

Personally I would welcome a ban - but that doesn't mean that a ban is the right thing to do.

[dimtimjim]

I have the pleasure of living with a partner and kids, so I have perfected the ability to 'zone out' of external noise pollution.

Although I agree with Andy, if it is the tradition over there, who are we to tell 'em to shut it?! If we're hosting the world cup in 2018, we wouldn't tollerate everyone else moaning about the number of fat men with moobs on every TV shot, would we?!

[Latina]

"When people come here, they should adapt in part to our culture"

"WHAT ARE THESE BLOODY HORNS?! - BAN THEM"

they're symbolic of african football, this is an african world cup. they may annoy you - and a ban (whilst it may be a good idea), would still be like FIFA saying, we want people to get a taste of African football support - but only to an extent.

Perhaps we don't understand the appeal, but it's not our culture. Have your opinions, but brandishing them in a matter of fact way kind of takes away the respect for the hosts.

Perhaps I've being a little oversensitive, but given the language used this seems like an unwarranted accusation of xenophobia when, as far as I can tell, people are just calling a spade a spade regardless of the culture involved.

That said, the vuvuzelas don't bother me. I quite like them, and still find them an amusing talking point during boring periods of games. It sounds like a huge hornets nest that never shuts up and gets an extra prod whenever something interesting happens on the pitch.

[Boboff]

Well I can assure you they are a blessed relief from Tinitus!

Chrs I agree with, although you can sometimes see racism where there isn't any, the fact that they are blown by "whites" and well as "black" South Africans make the point a little mute. Highlighting a cultural difference in society is not racism, and should never be seen as such.

Tim is of course correct that you can zone out pretty much anything, personally I like to read a book whilst watching so there is even less to drown out.....

[AndyJ]

Mr Bro-in-law-to-be and myself have Vuvuzelas. Mrs AndyJ's dad got them when he went to South africa at the start of the year. We were the only 2 in the pub with them and they got a lot of interest from the other people there. Loads of people wanted to have a go on them, they went down very well.

[Latina]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... aints.html

[chrysostom]

It was more a point that if a similar situation was to be imposed on any other facet of another tournament (for example - bare flesh, flags, chanting, going 'ooooooooooo' when a keeper takes a free kick), the host nation would get quite angry that the will of others is being imposed on 'their' tournament.

Whatever you think of it, it's a staple of african football.

AND WHEN HAVE I EVER FOUND RACISM WHERE THERE IS NONE.

You'd never say that if i was a caucasian, middle class woman.

edit. i see toph has posted this in the other thread

i'll contribute something original



also, Sepp Blatter is jumping on the bandwagon

Blatter, writing on Twitter, said: “To answer all your messages re the Vuvuzelas. I have always said that Africa has a different rhythm, a different sound.

“I don't see banning the music traditions of fans in their own country. Would you want to see a ban on the fan traditions in your country?”

[Latina]

AND WHEN HAVE I EVER FOUND RACISM WHERE THERE IS NONE.

You'd never say that if i was a caucasian, middle class woman.

Trust me, I would. I've seen plenty of white people get jumpy (when not required) about perceived racism towards other ethnicities. Although I'm not sure whether this was aimed at me as I didn't mention racism in the first place.

I do get your point. What I disagree with is there being anything more to this than people getting bothered by something they find too distracting, which is what happens when you're not used to it.

Personally I go the other way and am enjoying the novelty. I liked them from the first time I heard them on Chris' show. But I wouldn't be too polite to complain if it had instead been something I didn't like, and neither should anyone else.

[chrysostom]

was more sarcasm, being that i found racism in the innocuous statement.

flawless execution by me as per usual

[Yudster]

What I disagree with is there being anything more to this than people getting bothered by something they find too distracting, which is what happens when you're not used to it.

Its nothing to do with not being used to it, its to do with being given a migraine by it. I am bothered by it, I absolutely hate it - but as I have said elsewhere I wouldn't call for a ban, or vote for one if I was asked, for all the reasons stated by people here, Sep Blatter etc. I can't enjoy the tournament as it stands, and if they were banned I would have a much better chance of doing so - but my opinion shouldn't be used as an argument against a national tradition. If the worst thing that happens to me this year is that I don't get to enjoy the World Cup like I'd hoped to, well, I'm not doing too badly there am I?

[chrysostom]

it's a shame that it is bothering some people, but much like pompey and the bloody bell ringer (and the england band, who i was sat in front of when we played Egypt) - the bastards will keep on going, and there's nowt we can do about it.

[Latina]

was more sarcasm, being that i found racism in the innocuous statement.

I guessed that afterwards, so I feel stupider. Sorry!

Let's all be friends again and follow the Vuvuzela on Twitter.

[SAV1OUR]

was more sarcasm, being that i found racism in the innocuous statement.

follow the Vuvuzela on Twitter.

Done!

[chrysostom]

haha i approve of this with tommy typhoo's two thumb fresh

[Boboff]

AND WHEN HAVE I EVER FOUND RACISM WHERE THERE IS NONE.

You'd never say that if i was a caucasian, middle class woman.

See the way I see it you have asked a question then given the evidence in your't next statement.

You have done it a couple of times, recently, and back a while to me when I told the true stories of Afkanistan Nationals toilet habits, what you called racism was fact. The trouble is I don't care what colour or class you are, you obviously do.

Chrys, please don't take offence, but I think you do play this trump card of racisim, now I don't even know or care what your background is, just chill, you're a good guy, nice guy, Africans can be a number of colours and religions, is that really pertinent?

Lets just try and all get on!

[dimtimjim]

You'd never say that if i was a caucasian, middle class woman.

You mean to say that you're not?!?!

[chrysostom]

AND WHEN HAVE I EVER FOUND RACISM WHERE THERE IS NONE.

You'd never say that if i was a caucasian, middle class woman.

See the way I see it you have asked a question then given the evidence in your't next statement.

Ohhh, this was a (clearly poor) attempt at irony, sarcasm, i don't even know any more - i never called racism in this thread anyhoo!

I hinted at an unwillingness of understanding and tolerance of another country's culture. i avoided any comparison to racism...because this isn't racist at all! If you hate the Vuvuzela, you're (justifiably?) hating on African culture. which isn't racism - but i'm keen to leave all this behind.

i'll admit that i'll call racism at times where they're unexpected, partly because i enjoy understanding other people's definition of racism - and whether it tallies up with mine, but there are a lot of prejudices/faux pas/etc. that are hinted at by other members of the board as appropriate to their background (genderwise, socially, nationally, racially, economically etc.), and i've always made an effort not to be 'militant'.

Only real barney over racism i remember was with twoleftfeet.

sorry all

[MK Chris]

My favourite racist was Oliver.

[Boboff]

Cool, good reply.

Sorry.

[McGuinness-89]

Only on CM.net does a thread about loud horns turn into a racial debate.