[Yudster]

no.....really? so because a lot countries * up that makes it ok?

No, it means that it was a global phenomenon not a local one, so a local government can't really be blamed. Well not 100% anyway.

[dimtimjim]

i blame Matt Fincham.

[foot-loose]

no.....really? so because a lot countries * up that makes it ok?

What Yudster said. It's natural to try and find a single person / organisation to blame but it was a culture and, with hindsight, was always going to happen. There was (is) a logic of "buy now, pay later". This is the "pay later" bit that noone wants to deal with.

[Yudster]

no.....really? so because a lot countries * up that makes it ok?

What Yudster said. It's natural to try and find a single person / organisation to blame but it was a culture and, with hindsight, was always going to happen. There was (is) a logic of "buy now, pay later". This is the "pay later" bit that noone wants to deal with.

And, in the UK at least, the Buy Now Pay Later culture was instigated, encouraged and ultimately made normal by Thatcher's government. Ergo I blame Thatcher.

[Boboff]

Actually it pretty much is a UK sourced issue.

As foots would know the main issue at the core of the collapse was the growth of "securitisation" of debt. This was a simple idea, bag up 1000 mortgages with similar risk, get an insurance company like AIG to insure defaults, then as a lender you can "sell" the debt as triple A rated investment, meaning you can get it off your balance sheet whilst still collecting what in essence is a smaller margin. In order to "gear" up your business, this was invaluable. What actually went wrong was that the insurance companies were not really scoring the credit risk correctly, getting premiums without really being able to cover the loss when the "scores" were proven to be innaccurate.

What lies at the core of this whole issue is the basic human attitude to risk, sometimes people are optimistic, some are pessimistic, we went through a period of optimisim, now pessimism, where the truth is will always lie inbetween.

The labour government wasted money derived from the boom on extravegant spending in order to try and keep popular, rather than keeping back extra money to repay debt / build up reserves for the downturn.

The first world company is generally over addicted to debt, and this means, just like the Goverment, when times get harder, they are buggered.

Oh and the Buy now pay later culture was instigated not by Thatcher, but by DFS, who worked out that if you sell a Sofa, you have to pay VAT on it, but if you sell a sofa, and a financing package, then you only have to pay over VAT on the sofa price, and not on the finance aspect of the cost of the "deal" This meant that at a stroke they could improve margins by 10%.

Ed Millband needs serious decongestant advice.

[DevilsDuck]

But does this mean that the conservatives are full of crap?

Did David Cameron not pledge to put in place measures to protect the banks in the run up to the election?

[Boboff]

But does this mean that the conservatives are full of crap?

Did David Cameron not pledge to put in place measures to protect the banks in the run up to the election?

You shouldn't trust a guy who bought fathers day cards in packs of 20, bloody waste of money!

[DevilsDuck]

Oh I dont trust him.....that was my point

[Boboff]

You could take someones eye out with that.

[DevilsDuck]

I stuck a cork on the end of it due to health and safety......I dont want to get sued again

[dimtimjim]

Actually it pretty much is a UK sourced issue.

As foots would know the main issue at the core of the collapse was the growth of "securitisation" of debt. This was a simple idea, bag up 1000 mortgages with similar risk, get an insurance company like AIG to insure defaults, then as a lender you can "sell" the debt as triple A rated investment, meaning you can get it off your balance sheet whilst still collecting what in essence is a smaller margin. In order to "gear" up your business, this was invaluable. What actually went wrong was that the insurance companies were not really scoring the credit risk correctly, getting premiums without really being able to cover the loss when the "scores" were proven to be innaccurate.

What lies at the core of this whole issue is the basic human attitude to risk, sometimes people are optimistic, some are pessimistic, we went through a period of optimisim, now pessimism, where the truth is will always lie inbetween.

The labour government wasted money derived from the boom on extravegant spending in order to try and keep popular, rather than keeping back extra money to repay debt / build up reserves for the downturn.

The first world company is generally over addicted to debt, and this means, just like the Goverment, when times get harder, they are buggered.

Oh and the Buy now pay later culture was instigated not by Thatcher, but by DFS, who worked out that if you sell a Sofa, you have to pay VAT on it, but if you sell a sofa, and a financing package, then you only have to pay over VAT on the sofa price, and not on the finance aspect of the cost of the "deal" This meant that at a stroke they could improve margins by 10%.

Ed Millband needs serious decongestant advice.

Jeez Bob, did you need to go for a lay down after that?!

[Sidders]

If you work in a School which budgets of yours have been cut?

Don't believe it when they tell you the education budget will not be cut - it has been. It also doesn't help that we spent a lot of this years money last year.

[Boboff]

Ah you see Sidders is right and Gaspode is right.

(I am a governor of a local school) The budget has not been cut but the things which they expect the school to do with the money has grown, from our point of view the biggest thing we are now repsponsible for is maintenance, whereas before the council were. So we are expected to do more with the same money, which is in all sences a cut.

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

If you work in a School which budgets of yours have been cut?

Don't believe it when they tell you the education budget will not be cut - it has been. It also doesn't help that we spent a lot of this years money last year.

I work in Children's Services Finance and deal with reality - what budgets have been cut this year?

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

Ah you see Sidders is right and Gaspode is right.

(I am a governor of a local school) The budget has not been cut but the things which they expect the school to do with the money has grown, from our point of view the biggest thing we are now repsponsible for is maintenance, whereas before the council were. So we are expected to do more with the same money, which is in all sences a cut.

Again I am assuming if the Council paid for it (which is unusual) this came from their centrally held DSG which ultimately hasn't been cut (as yet). Thats just the Council moving money around its not a cut from Central Government.

[MK Chris]

I like Ed Miliband and I joined the Labour Party so I could vote for him. I think he generally defends the right New Labour achievements and apologises for the right ones (and you can say it's crowd pleasing and you may be right... but I have a feeling at the moment that it isn't) and I think he has the best policies. I think David is far more stained by the bad New Labour policies. Also, Ed's expenses were clean, he had claimed amongst the lowest of all MPs.

Whether he can get the Labour Party elected again, is of course another matter, but as others have said that is almost as much down to the current government as him.

[dimtimjim]

They've gone from one pair of scrapping * heads to another.... Farcical.

[Sidders]

Ah you see Sidders is right and Gaspode is right.

(I am a governor of a local school) The budget has not been cut but the things which they expect the school to do with the money has grown, from our point of view the biggest thing we are now repsponsible for is maintenance, whereas before the council were. So we are expected to do more with the same money, which is in all sences a cut.

Again I am assuming if the Council paid for it (which is unusual) this came from their centrally held DSG which ultimately hasn't been cut (as yet). Thats just the Council moving money around its not a cut from Central Government.

I don't know how the financial side works. All I know is, we don't have the money to do what we intended to do with the money we expected to get this year. Maybe it works differently for each LEA.

[Boboff]

Yes, Yes & absolutely.

There have been no cuts announced for the current year, next years budget has been provisionally set, and has words like "guaranteed" in the document, but who knows. Devolved Capital budget for this year has not been set at all, and this may be where you have lost money, as you can " save" up to three years devolved capital to use on a big project, and if you were relying on the current years, which hasn't been set ( not cut.... stupid they may still give it) then it would affect you.

The council used to run a PMP scheme which was a fixed price for each school, they then withdrew it and expect the school to pay. When the price was £8k a year, and it covers replacing things like boilers for £120,000, there was an element of discounting for schools covered by county which has been withdrawn.

We were further handicapped by the Council becoming unitary at the start of this year as well, which means no one knows whats going on, or who is in charge.

I am amazed that the school budget is set in March, for the fiscal year, when the school year starts in September, so in effect when you start the school year you only have a firm budget in place for the next 6 months only. So if you have funding for certain aspects, they can be cut short half way through the academic year, daft.

[Yudster]

The organisation I work for runs a fiscal year from September to August because its based on the needs of our school. I assumed all schools did that.

[Bonanzoid]

Now David's quit frontline politics? That's a weird one.

[Sidders]

The organisation I work for runs a fiscal year from September to August because its based on the needs of our school. I assumed all schools did that.

Nope, ours is April the same as the financial year.

[Yudster]

Well, it is an independant school, maybe its a case of us being allowed to please ourselves.

[Boboff]

Apparently it was one of the reforms Blair wanted to bring in, to make the budgets match the academic year, but it didn't happen.

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

Yes, Yes & absolutely.

There have been no cuts announced for the current year, next years budget has been provisionally set, and has words like "guaranteed" in the document, but who knows. Devolved Capital budget for this year has not been set at all, and this may be where you have lost money, as you can " save" up to three years devolved capital to use on a big project, and if you were relying on the current years, which hasn't been set ( not cut.... stupid they may still give it) then it would affect you.

The council used to run a PMP scheme which was a fixed price for each school, they then withdrew it and expect the school to pay. When the price was £8k a year, and it covers replacing things like boilers for £120,000, there was an element of discounting for schools covered by county which has been withdrawn.

We were further handicapped by the Council becoming unitary at the start of this year as well, which means no one knows whats going on, or who is in charge.

I am amazed that the school budget is set in March, for the fiscal year, when the school year starts in September, so in effect when you start the school year you only have a firm budget in place for the next 6 months only. So if you have funding for certain aspects, they can be cut short half way through the academic year, daft.

Devolved Capital figures are there for this year (10/11) financial year (it actually runs to end Aug 11) so that must be your Council choosing not to set them. The only capital grants cut were BSF and Harnessing Technology.

The maintenance scheme sounds interesting but I can see why they have cut it - we have never run anything like that.

Sept - March is 7 months and the only reason I can see for not doing it on Academic years is the whole finance process on top of the start of the School year would be a nightmare plus it would mean year end (the busiest finance time) would fall during Summer Holidays. Also Schools are just a part of the wider Council Accounts so to do them separately would be a nightmare (especially with WGA).

I could bore on this for hours (and do).