[Nicola_Red]

However...you have to think of who's listening. Not target audience, but children (remember it's the Easter holidays). Do their parents want them repeating some of the phrases in the song? Do parents want to have to explain to their 5 year old what the lyrics meant? Nope. So for that reason, I think Aled make the right decision.

Well, didn't Chris say some of the words later on? I know he said "boobies", and there was also talk about if it's possible to be "wobbly and firm", to which someone texted in "yes, with jelly". The only word which didn't get mentioned was "tight-arsed" which was probably the one they all agreed they should edit out. It wasn't the words that were the problem, it was the context. My point was that if you take it on a level as the lyrics in some of their songs, the misogyny was extremely low and if you take it at it's humorous, tongue-in-cheek core and tone, then virtually non-existent, IMO. I know R1 have edited Rihanna's "S&M", to much controversy, and most songs of that ilk seem to have a radio edit, but it does seem to be as if the artists and their songs can get away with more than the actual voices of the radio station. Which doesn't seem right and fair to me, although I do accept they are employees of the station and therefore will have more responsibility. But I tune into R1 and The Chris Moyles Show for the personalities, not the music, so I automatically get annoyed when I feel the creativity and natural humorous intentions of the team are getting, in my opinion, unnecessarily obstructed because of the ever-increasing thinning skin of BBC management.

Anyway, I wonder how many parents have to explain the general lyrical content of Snoop Dogg's "Sweat" to their five year olds. No wonder Aled called him "creepy" the other day.

I agree with everything you're saying here, and it doesn't make sense to be able to say the words but not sing them. The more they say the word 'boobies' on air the more I doubt my original assertion! I am a professional feminist (MA in Women's Studies), and it doesn't offend me, but then I do also have a sense of humour...

[dimtimjim]

I am a professional feminist

Funny, me too....

[Nicola_Red]

I am a professional feminist

Funny, me too....

You've got a Women's Studies degree too? They didn't let men on my course...

[bmstinton93]

You've got a Women's Studies degree too? They didn't let men on my course...

Talk about sexism...

[dimtimjim]

I have spent YEARS on studying all degrees of women....

[Nicola_Red]

You've got a Women's Studies degree too? They didn't let men on my course...

Talk about sexism...

I know! It's allowed, too. We did a module on literature that was shared with an undergrad group and my tutor said, in all seriousness, "now I'm afraid there will be some men in the class." Men! Oh the horror.

[dimtimjim]

They didn't let men on my course...

Are you sure this wasn't more down to your reputation preceeding you.....?!

[Nicola_Red]

Ha! Maybe. Especially as all the other women on the course, including the tutors, were middle-aged lesbians

[dimtimjim]

Mmmmmmmmm..... Lesbians.

[bmstinton93]

I was a bit disappointed when I clicked on that photo...

[dimtimjim]

[Nicola_Red]

To wander back towards the topic at hand, if I may put my Serious Feminist hat on, I can say that some women would be offended by the song.

The unwanted gaze of men can be very intrusive and upsetting, and that's something men just can't understand. Yes they may have had women comment on their physical appearance, but it's just not the same on a psychological level - think for example of victims of sexual abuse and rape. Most of the time I cope fine with any attention I may get (which is usually negative because of the fact I have tattoos and piercings and don't look stereotypically 'feminine'), but I'm a strong person, and not too young. That song does represent something that many women find traumatising.

In an ideal world, men would be respectful to women whatever they wore, but we don't live in an ideal world, far from it. With that in mind, women do have to expect sexual attention from men if they wear skimpy outfits, so people shouldn't be surprised by that.

[dimtimjim]

I'm sorry Nic, but if you wear a low cut top, as many women do, which shows off a massive ammount of cleavage, I WILL LOOK.

But, if I was walking around with trousers which showed off the top of my penis - not all of it mind, just the 75% to grab your attention, and women were sneaking a peak, how can I in ANY WAY blame them?!! If I didn't want people to look at my penis, I wouldn't show off 75% of it.

Sorry, women who wear low cut tops and then tut when a man looks, because "i only wear this to feel good, not look good" can feck right off. If you don't want people to look, don't show it off. Simple logic.

[Nicola_Red]

No, that's what I said in the last paragraph in my post - I agree with you, if you're gonna wear stuff like that you've gotta expect the attention. I don't wear low cut tops or short skirts without leggings/tights, but then I am an old lady now

[dreamer1978]

As a female i didn't find it at all offensive in anyway. I was brought up in a family that you had to have a thick skin. My late great Aunt had the dirtiest sense of humour, so things like what was in the unedited Sunshine Sheilas song didn't offend me. I see innuendo and things in a lot of things. I have said things that would make a grown man blush. Its the the pc police gone mad having to edit it. Aled and Tina's reworking was even worse than the unedited song.

[Nicola_Red]

To be clear, I wasn't saying all women are offended by the song, or even most, and I wasn't saying that I am either. But there will be some and that needs to be taken into account.

[dimtimjim]

But there will be some......

Some sad, lonely, boring, prudish ones, you mean?!

[Nicola_Red]

But there will be some......

Some sad, lonely, boring, prudish ones, you mean?!

Yep, the sad, lonely, prudish victims of sexual assault or attacks, for example.

[ChunkyMunky]

I thought that the show was great this morning, when they were talking about the song, and I was looking forward to hearing it, and seeing if Chris had gone too far or not.

Having just come here to listen to it, I couldn't believe that's all it was.
I used to take clips and Chris' fake ads and put them on the original XBox all those years ago, so that every now and then, between songs on Project Gotham, I'd get a parody ad or a clip of Chris and Dave talking, which made it seem like a real radio station.
My point?
Well, this clip was one of them, and the way they were talking about it on air, I would never have imagined it would have been.

I've always thought that Aled was a jobs-worth, and this is another example of that.
I've heard Chris say things more recently that were nearer the bone than that.
If Aled gets his way, every last bit of life will be sucked out of this show.

Too many people wary of who they might upset, and too many people just waiting to be upset.

Aled objectifying Christiano Ronaldo when he talks about his body is no different to Chris talking about women in the summer.

Well done to Dave for at least being mostly fine with the recording.

A different age?
No it wasn't.
People are just over-sensitive because they think they should be.

CM

[chrysostom]

I've always thought that Aled was a jobs-worth, and this is another example of that.
I've heard Chris say things more recently that were nearer the bone than that.
If Aled gets his way, every last bit of life will be sucked out of this show.

Too many people wary of who they might upset, and too many people just waiting to be upset.

Aled objectifying Christiano Ronaldo when he talks about his body is no different to Chris talking about women in the summer.

Well done to Dave for at least being mostly fine with the recording.

A different age?
No it wasn't.
People are just over-sensitive because they think they should be.

CM

you utter moron. aled was acting within the boundaries of his role as producer. he is the one who gets the blame if the audience is offended, and that song would have been something that offended quite a few people.

the BBC cannot afford to intentionally attract negative press, as the rest of the media world are out to make them seem like they are a waste of tax payers money. if they release material during breakfast hours which is sexually contentious then they would be asking for complaints. aled doesn't refer to ronaldo's 'todger', 'dick' or 'willy' - so he's not objectifying sexual organs in the same way which the song was.

'well done' to dave? he was fully aware that it wouldn't be fit for broadcast, so by your morals he should be in the wrong.

finally, there's no reason why you need to sign off each post with your name, or initials to indicate your name. it's right there on the left, and everyone can see it. unless it's an ironic way of parodying your own insignificance.

[bmstinton93]

[Aled]

What Chrysostom says is right. I don't objectify guys by saying someone's fit. Chris would describe someone as fit in most shows (think handovers). The same analogy for me would be to refer to a guy that is in the office or in the street as 'bouncy buns' or 'big package'. Can you IMAGINE how many guys would be uncomfortable by that? And how many people would be offended to hear that on a breakfast show!? I'd get many complaints.

I think there's a case of - just because you think it's fine then if someone else doesn't like it they're a prude. I'm sure there are plenty of gay chat I could have that would make plenty of heterosexual guys describe as 'wrong' or advise me it's fine as long as I 'kept those thoughts to myself' o'r didn't 'ram these things down their throats' etc etc. I'd be interested to hear what side of the 'pc' argument they'd be then.

I see no difference whether you're gay or straight.

[McGuinness-89]

This is a weird one, I listened to the Sunshine Sheilas song and wasn't in any way offended. However I'm a 21 year old straight male.

To call Aled a prude is short-sighted, on air he is a producer, this is how he earns his money. To put himself of any danger of repremand(sp?) just to hear the phrase "tight arse" nationwide in a 10 year old throw away song is ridiculous.

However much I wanted to hear the song at the time, Aled made the right decision.

[Wykey]

What Chrysostom says is right. I don't objectify guys by saying someone's fit. Chris would describe someone as fit in most shows (think handovers). The same analogy for me would be to refer to a guy that is in the office or in the street as 'bouncy buns' or 'big package'. Can you IMAGINE how many guys would be uncomfortable by that? And how many people would be offended to hear that on a breakfast show!? I'd get many complaints.

I'd think that was a bit of fun, personally. I'm thinking of the bits of the marathon show where Gregg got naked for example... Out of interest were there any complaints about that? I seem to remember some of Chris' comments were quite...... Risqué.

I think there's a case of - just because you think it's fine then if someone else doesn't like it they're a prude. I'm sure there are plenty of gay chat I could have that would make plenty of heterosexual guys describe as 'wrong' or advise me it's fine as long as I 'kept those thoughts to myself' o'r didn't 'ram these things down their throats' etc etc. I'd be interested to hear what side of the 'pc' argument they'd be then.

But I think most people would consider it to be those complaining who had the problem, not you.

I've been told things that might make even your hair curl but I'd say it's the intent behind the words, not the words themselves that are the most important thing.

As has been said previously, there are a lot of songs on the playlist that are FAR more eyebrow raising than sunshine Sheilas.

For me.

[Nicola_Red]

Both parts of the debate are now up in the sound vault, in case anyone that wants to hear them again.