[MK Chris]

Bit late this thread, given we're two races in, but some good races so far.

Malaysia was a great race, but the only one I can remember where the post-race interviews were almost more interesting than the race itself. Mark Webber is clearly aggrieved at turning his engine mode down having been told Seb would hold position; Red Bull are clearly not happy with Vettel, but he will get away with it because he's Vettel... frankly, if I was Mark Webber I think I'd be seriously considering my position within the team - and I suspect he is, given his comments that he's off back to Australia to collect his thoughts. I don't expect to see him in a Red Bull next season and actually, I can't see a team that he would go to, so perhaps that paves the way for a move to Indy Cars as someone has suggested here or World Touring Cars.

As for Seb, well I don't buy all this stuff that he misunderstood - he knew exactly what he was doing and decided to deal with the consequences later.

[The Deadly]

Sebastian Vettel is a winner and the best F1 drivers are selfish, single minded bastards 99% of the time. That being said it was a really shitty thing to do. It is horrible for Webber that this happened and he will feel very hard done to. Webber has been in a position to attack Vettel in other races and always follows team orders. I said before the driver line ups were confirmed that Webber should have switched teams, maybe go to an up and coming team that he can lead and take to the next level. By staying at Red Bull he will always be second best to Vettel and I imagine will end up being deeply unhappy come the end of the season.

[MK Chris]

But that is his role there, I get that. He knows he's not going to win the Championship and is just a wingman; this was Vettel's opportunity to pay him back. I don't think he'll go to a mid-field team now because firstly he'll be too expensive and secondly they'll want to bring in young talent.

[dimtimjim]

I have thoroughly enjoyed the first two races of this season, great stuff. Good to see Lewis doing so well in his new motor.

Anyway, yesterday, my view is whats all the fuss about? they are racing drivers! Seb raced! If MW had stuck with him until the end of the race and crossed the line 0.2 seconds back I could understand his comments, but at the end of the day SV passed him and then fecked off by over 6 seconds, to my mind rendering any 'I should have won' comments null, void and rather silly.

I too don't see Webber in F1 next year, but then I couldn't see him still being in it this year...

[dimtimjim]

[The Deadly]

That is the other point in all this. Vettel is German and it is in their genetic make up to do what he did.

[MK Chris]

Anyway, yesterday, my view is whats all the fuss about? they are racing drivers! Seb raced! If MW had stuck with him until the end of the race and crossed the line 0.2 seconds back I could understand his comments, but at the end of the day SV passed him and then fecked off by over 6 seconds, to my mind rendering any 'I should have won' comments null, void and rather silly.

I disagree. I don't like team orders particularly, but they are part of the sport. Seb won the championship last season through help from not only Mark Webber, but also both Toro Rossos and Michael Schumacher. Mark turned his engine mode down after being reassured Seb would not be attacking him. He's totally arrogant.

[Yudster]

He is a professional sportsman trying to win a championship. If he did not do everything possible to do that, I would lose respect for him. The concept of "teams" in F1 is silly, they aren't teams - it is an individual title and they race as individuals. The whole "team orders" idea is crap, ignoring it is the best thing for it.

[The Deadly]

Regardless of team orders being allowed or not Vettel disobeyed an instruction from his boss and if the majority of people did that in their regular jobs they would be subject to disciplinary procedures. Red Bull have to give him some form of punishment otherwise they look extremely weak.

[chrysostom]

Which do the team get more money/prestige for - winning the constructors championship or having a world champion?

[MK Chris]

Which do the team get more money/prestige for - winning the constructors championship or having a world champion?

They are two separate questions really; the money comes from winning the constructors championship, whereas the prestige would really come from enabling a driver to win the championship (which is not the same as 'having a world champion', because if Vettel, for example, had moved to Ferrari for this year, Ferrari would 'have' the current world champion).

[chrysostom]

Ah right. I'm not an F1 buff, but it seems that if (by racing each other for first) Webber or Vettel had damaged their cars, then they would have been taking an expensive risk that (from Bed Bull's perspective) was unnecessary.

If they had damaged/strained their cars they could have not only cost RB a lot of money in repairs, but also points in the constructors championship.

If Vettel openly said he wasn't going to ease up so that Webber knew, then it wouldn't be as bad - but Vettel seems to have sucker punched someone who had all but won the race.

As I said, I know very little about F1, but this was on the radio and I got quite into it with the drama.

[Wykey]

That is the other point in all this. Vettel is German and it is in their genetic make up to do what he did.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

Although I'm not sure how it fits in with the other lazy stereotype of their genetic make up being one of utter obedience combined with ruthless efficiency though.

And I don't think Ayrton Senna was German, was he?

So many discrepancies with even just a modicum of interrogation. Interrogation, Germans, get it?!?!?11

[The Deadly]

I completely stand by what I said. German.

[Wykey]

You stand by what you said? What like a soldier, at attention? You know, because Germans and that?!!!?

[chrysostom]

XENOPHOBIA LOL.

[MK Chris]

That is the other point in all this. Vettel is German and it is in their genetic make up to do what he did.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

Although I'm not sure how it fits in with the other lazy stereotype of their genetic make up being one of utter obedience combined with ruthless efficiency though.

And I don't think Ayrton Senna was German, was he?

So many discrepancies with even just a modicum of interrogation. Interrogation, Germans, get it?!?!?11

I almost rose to that too, but I thought (without any certainty) that he was joking.

[Bonanzoid]

Vettel obviously shouldn't have done what he did, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't love watching his battle with Webber for the lead.

As for the German statement, it may have been tongue in cheek, but Nico Rosberg is German and did the exact opposite of Vettel in the exact same situation, bar their positioning. The fact him and Hamilton are close friends probably came in to play, but he was itching to get past him and was denied by the team, then stuck by his orders.

I was gutted to see Alonso's front wing risk kick him in the face. With Ferrari's much improved car I'm thinking Alonso could be a serious contender for the title. I think him, Vettel and Hamilton are arguably the best drivers in the field.

[The Deadly]

Rosberg is half Finnish hence his more passive nature.

[Bonanzoid]

Ross Brawn came out with a cracking line when asked about Rosberg complaining about the team orders, saying "I'd be disappointed if he didn't."

[The Deadly]

A lot of ex F1 drivers calling for Vettel to be suspended for the next race. If anyone believes Red Bull would do that to the current World Champion then they are crazy.

[MK Chris]

Ross Brawn came out with a cracking line when asked about Rosberg complaining about the team orders, saying "I'd be disappointed if he didn't."

Yes, I smiled at that too - he's absolutely right.

A lot of ex F1 drivers calling for Vettel to be suspended for the next race. If anyone believes Red Bull would do that to the current World Champion then they are crazy.

Of course they won't do that, but they would be quite within their rights to impose any sanctions they wish (fines, etc.) I doubt they'll do anything though.

[Wykey]

That is the other point in all this. Vettel is German and it is in their genetic make up to do what he did.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

Although I'm not sure how it fits in with the other lazy stereotype of their genetic make up being one of utter obedience combined with ruthless efficiency though.

And I don't think Ayrton Senna was German, was he?

So many discrepancies with even just a modicum of interrogation. Interrogation, Germans, get it?!?!?11

I almost rose to that too, but I thought (without any certainty) that he was joking.

I assumed it was a 'light-hearted josh', but even 'light-hearted joshing' can lead to division which can lead to hatred, which as we know can lead to the dark side.

So unless it's particularly elegant or imaginative, then down with it. Frankly.

[chrysostom]

'light-hearted joshing' can lead to division which can lead to hatred, which as we know can lead to the dark side.

So unless it's particularly elegant or imaginative, then down with it. Frankly.

[The Deadly]

I apologise to all our German member. Achtung baby.