[chrysostom]

My feelings on the word are well documented on this forum, and I've been supported and derided for my opinion on here.

From personal experience I think it's poisonous, hurtful and unnaceptable - as I do with the 'n word'. The times of 'claiming back' are long gone as are the times of claiming 'PC has gone mad'. It is everyone's responsibility to eliminate prejudice in society. Creating divisions based on race (whether you're in the majority or minority) helps nobody.

[neilt0]

My feelings on the word are well documented on this forum, and I've been supported and derided for my opinion on here.

From personal experience I think it's poisonous, hurtful and unnaceptable - as I do with the 'n word'. The times of 'claiming back' are long gone as are the times of claiming 'PC has gone mad'. It is everyone's responsibility to eliminate prejudice in society. Creating divisions based on race (whether you're in the majority or minority) helps nobody.

Can you point to places in the forum where this has been discussed? It might help me, as I'm still fuming a bit about it.

[chrysostom]

Anything with 'twoleftfeet' will have it, but the others are all little bits here and there in random threads!

You are 100% right though, it is a pejorative term for all people of South Asian descent, intended to closely match to the fundamental values of Pakistan (a very different culture from mainland India/Sri Lanka), while also attaching a religious element as well as the idea that all people with brown skin are 'non English'. For me, it's a concept that alienates a very large group of people indiscriminately.

Conversely, using it to 'claim it back' only furthers the gap between the majority and the minority in the heads of the minority, and sends the message to the majority that they are separate and different - while also reminding them that they can use the term, but the majority can't. It's all nasty business.

[neilt0]

Anything with 'twoleftfeet' will have it, but the others are all little bits here and there in random threads!

You are 100% right though, it is a pejorative term for all people of South Asian descent, intended to closely match to the fundamental values of Pakistan (a very different culture from mainland India/Sri Lanka), while also attaching a religious element as well as the idea that all people with brown skin are 'non English'. For me, it's a concept that alienates a very large group of people indiscriminately.

Conversely, using it to 'claim it back' only furthers the gap between the majority and the minority in the heads of the minority, and sends the message to the majority that they are separate and different - while also reminding them that they can use the term, but the majority can't. It's all nasty business.

Thanks. Well put.

I searched for "twoleftfeet" and all I got was people saying he was a nob.

[Bonanzoid]

I've had a few slightly heated debates with some friends over if the P word is racist, and in my eyes there's no argument really. They argued the abbreviation factor, whereas a couple of us said that was ridiculous. To me, if it can possibly be perceived as racist then it's racist. There will be people it won't offend, but there will also be many people it does offend so why take the risk? I can't stand hearing it. And unfortunately I've heard it far too often from customers at work, said people are promptly told that sort of language is not acceptable, and we put up with a lot of colourful language normally. I can handle all the * and shits they want to throw about, but that's it.

[neilt0]

I've had a few slightly heated debates with some friends over if the P word is racist, and in my eyes there's no argument really. They argued the abbreviation factor, whereas a couple of us said that was ridiculous. To me, if it can possibly be perceived as racist then it's racist. There will be people it won't offend, but there will also be many people it does offend so why take the risk? I can't stand hearing it. And unfortunately I've heard it far too often from customers at work, said people are promptly told that sort of language is not acceptable, and we put up with a lot of colourful language normally. I can handle all the * and shits they want to throw about, but that's it.

Also well put.

Cheers.

[Nicola_Red]

When my Australian cousin and her boyfriend were over here we were horrified to hear them using the N and P words. My mum had to warn them that those words are completely unacceptable in this country. As I was to discover during their stay, certain parts of Australia seem to be stuck in the early 1960s.

[MK Chris]

I detest both words with every ounce of my being - I actually can't bring myself to say them, even when quoting someone else, which is the only situation where such words may potentially reasonably be deemed as acceptable... they are racist words and anyone who uses them is ignorant. They may or may not be racist people, but if they are not racist they are ignorant and if they are racist, then... well, by definition, they are ignorant.

[James H]

I hate that. I had a bangladeshi housemate who used to call people the P word to try and fit in, and it wound me up so much.

Reminds me of a scene in The Office: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cir05JyEsV0 (I'd steer clear of the video comments though)

What I think weird is how it was an accepted word back in the day, in Only Fools and Horses they reference it in an episode when talking about a corner shop!

[Nicola_Red]

IThey may or may not be racist people, but if they are not racist they are ignorant and if they are racist, then... well, by definition, they are ignorant.

I think if you've been brought up by racist/ignorant parents and/or in a racist/ignorant culture, which would have been the case with my cousin's boyfriend, you're not necessarily ignorant through your own fault. That doesn't make it okay to say those things, but if nobody tells you they're wrong, you just wouldn't realise. What my cousin's mother's excuse is I dunno, cos she was brought up in the UK and knows perfectly well those are unacceptable words.

[chrysostom]

As soon as someone tells him that it's unacceptable (and he's given a thorough rationale) then he's not ignorant. If he then decides to continue using the words, then it's from an informed perspective.

[Nicola_Red]

Yeah, I agree. He was obviously brought up in a culture where those words were completely acceptable, and it was kind of a surprise to find out that they aren't.

[Bonanzoid]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schoolreport/21853940

Whoever is teaching these kids isn't fit for purpose. It really gets on my tits when I hear 'ask' pronounced as 'axe', and it's very clear in that video. Yuck.

[JayE]

The fact that Chris isn't back on air yet and that he's doing nowt. Just had one of those moments where this came to mind earlier.

[MK Chris]

........that he's doing nowt

How do you know?

[English Bob]

The fact that Chris isn't back on air yet and that he's doing nowt. Just had one of those moments where this came to mind earlier.

He's not doing nowt! I heard him do a voiceover for a Farmfoods advert yesterday!

Wait...what?

[bmstinton93]

........that he's doing nowt

How do you know?

As far as we're concerned he is. He's doing nothing that we can see / hear him in, apart from a farm foods advert.

[Nicola_Red]

........that he's doing nowt

How do you know?

Sounds like you know something we don't, Toph. Did Chris confide in you?...

[MK Chris]

Ha absolutely not - but the assumption he's doing nothing just because we don't know about it is a bit silly.

[Nicola_Red]

Well, true. I do know what Jay meant though.

[Yudster]

I'm scared of my new phone. I need to spend some time tomorrow making friends with it. At the moment I know how to do Twitter and emails and various other things but I have no idea how to make or recieve a call or a text. And I don't understand the point of Google+.

Sad.

[dimtimjim]

Yeah, I'm still barely scratching the surface with my new bling-ting. Am enjoying making use of unlimited Sky Sports on my phone tho, watched some odd stuff so far!

[Yudster]

Yeah, I'm still barely scratching the surface with my new bling-ting. Am enjoying making use of unlimited Sky Sports on my phone tho, watched some odd stuff so far!

Make sure you watch the squash when its on.

[dimtimjim]

I love squash.

[Yudster]

Lemon is horrible though. Unless its lemony like this -