[bmstinton93]

I don't know why but I never got to like Matt Smith, although I think it was more to do with just the writing seemed to change and I just couldn't enjoy the episodes at all so gave up! I used to love every episode with David Tennant and Christopher Eccleston.

[Yudster]

I do think that since Matt Smith the feel of the programmes has become more mass-market and American, but I do like him, he's a wonderful actor. I am glad they have gone for an older Doctor this time - hopefully the writers will also stop pandering to the lowest common denominator (ie the American audience) and we'll have some really good storylines again.

[Badger Mark]

I do think that since Matt Smith the feel of the programmes has become more mass-market and American, but I do like him, he's a wonderful actor. I am glad they have gone for an older Doctor this time - hopefully the writers will also stop pandering to the lowest common denominator (ie the American audience) and we'll have some really good storylines again.

In what ways did the writers pander to American audiences? As a representative of said audience I'd like some examples. I'm genuinely curious rather than trying to pick a fight.

[Bruvva]

It's an interesting shift in the type of lead character that shows in Dr Who's timeslot normally go for. Camelot and that god awful Robin Hood thing all went for the young, pretty main leads so it'll be interesting to see how Capaldi goes down as the doctor. Will "the kids" go for him? That question in itself reveals a quite depressing tendency in TV drama, that an older actor (he's roughly the age Hartnell was when Dr Who started) raises questions and makes people wonder if the show will retain its popularity reveals a disheartening superficial tendency amongst the viewing population.

Personally, I think he'll make a good Dr. He's a fine actor but he really should have kept the hair he had when he starred in the Crow Road :

[Yudster]

I do think that since Matt Smith the feel of the programmes has become more mass-market and American, but I do like him, he's a wonderful actor. I am glad they have gone for an older Doctor this time - hopefully the writers will also stop pandering to the lowest common denominator (ie the American audience) and we'll have some really good storylines again.

In what ways did the writers pander to American audiences? As a representative of said audience I'd like some examples. I'm genuinely curious rather than trying to pick a fight.

Ok - I accept a sweeping generalisation of that sort is inappropriate, especially when a representative of a very different section of "American culture" to that stereotype is right here. Apologies Mark.

I think the tone of the series became much more aimed at a younger, possibly less discerning and more fickle audience with a far shorter attention span. It glossed up and dumbed down - perhaps not fatally so (well definitely not), but noticeably so for loyal audiences. This coincided with a huge swell of popularity for the series in America, from a far more mainstream audience than it had previously enjoyed, which I am assuming was not a coincidence.

[Topher]

.............he really should have kept the hair he had when he starred in the Crow Road :

* me, that doesn't look like him at all - that looks like the Songs of Praise director bloke that had a couple of episodes in The Vicar of Dibley..... come to think of it, he had a Scottish accent too. *checks* It's him! Well I never knew that.

[chrysostom]

In what ways did the writers pander to American audiences? As a representative of said audience I'd like some examples. I'm genuinely curious rather than trying to pick a fight.

It might be unfair to blame this all on the US market, but as a revenue stream and a way to boost the BBC's profile internationally - it's so likely that the American audience is the reason for the shift in the ethos of Doctor Who episodes since Matt Smith came in. It's more the commercialisation for the international & mass market, which has become a lot more extreme since the show has become more popular in the US.

1. Story arcs rarely span more than 2 episodes (unless they're running through the course of a series) - a very american technique which allows for an audience with a short attention span.

2. Amy & Rory became the main focus of the show for a while, because they were a couple that people could root for, and everything always ended up OK with them despite their dynamic being horrible. This is a very American trait - contrast this with Rose & Mickey.

3. The show is playing on the Anglophilia trend currently sweeping the states, making the most of shots in London, zooming in on Jammy dodgers etc. There are a lot of 'British' quirks which seem crowbarred in

4. Overarching themes are generally love, romance and interesting sci fi ideas have been ignored during Matt Smith's tenure (There's a crack in the wall, it's everywhere?!) because once shows alienate the least intelligent, their ratings drop.

5. Clara was appointed as a typical English rose, clean cut, received pronounciation and pretty - if Billie Piper or Catherine Tate was cast now, it's likely the US audience would just tune out as they're 'not right'.

6. Ecclestone was emotionally stunted from coming out of the time war, Tennant was vulnerable but still angry. Matt Smith was sugar coated and lovely, so that the audience would never question his ethics or that he was a good person doing the right thing.

7. The airing of episodes is now in the typical American format of splitting it over the peak seasons for the sake of viewing figures. Having a massive break half way through for no reason which is alien to almost all UK shows.

8. Torchwood became primarily American (Miracle Day). It was awful.

I just think that everything's a bit too 'happy' and neat. And really hope that Capaldi's era will be much better than Matt Smith's

[Badger Mark]

Those are some really great points about American audiences and Dr. Who. I'm at work right now and don't have the time for a full reply, but I will definitely do so later today.

[Bruvva]

1. Story arcs rarely span more than 2 episodes (unless they're running through the course of a series) - a very american technique which allows for an audience with a short attention span.

I'd query that point, I'd say US TV has much longer arcs than UK shows purely because the have longer series and can actually have things like character and plot development.

More importantly - Peter Capaldi's old band

[Badger Mark]

In what ways did the writers pander to American audiences? As a representative of said audience I'd like some examples. I'm genuinely curious rather than trying to pick a fight.

It might be unfair to blame this all on the US market, but as a revenue stream and a way to boost the BBC's profile internationally - it's so likely that the American audience is the reason for the shift in the ethos of Doctor Who episodes since Matt Smith came in. It's more the commercialisation for the international & mass market, which has become a lot more extreme since the show has become more popular in the US....

Thanks for this response. Lots of stuff to think about. For the record, I watched Dr. Who a lot way back during the Tom Baker era and then I lost track of the show as I got older. I watched a few of the Eccleston era shows and then jumped back in completely when David Tennant came on board.

I agree with a number of your points. The split season format, which is very common now here in the States, drives me nuts and I think it can hurt a show more than it helps. For very popular shows it's not necessarily a show-killer (i.e. Lost), but for new shows that come out of the gates well (but not blazing) and then go into mid-season hiatus, it can lead to viewers forgetting about the show and moving on to other programs. And then when the show comes back from it's break it's lost half it's audience and they don't come back.

I can't really speak to your point about Clara vs previous companions. What you say very well may be accurate. It's hard for me to judge since I've never had much of a problem with any of the companions that I'm familiar with. Maybe since I've watched a lot of UK imports throughout my life, I wouldn't necessarily pick up on the fact that a character was a particular stereotype. Not that they don't exist here in the States. I think there's only two general British character types that the average US audience recognizes - the "Posh" type and the "C_ockney" type (sorry but I had to break up that word so it would appear in my post). Obviously that's a pretty narrow view.

I would have to disagree also with your point about long vs short story arcs. On the contrary, as Bruvva pointed out, US tv seasons generally run so much longer than UK shows that the story arcs can end up being quite long and involved. Not all shows of course. Police procedurals here tend to be more episodic with one-off stories/episode. And our sitcoms are the same. But the more dramatic shows can have extended story arcs. And of course our sci-fi genre shows are often big on long story arcs.

One thing that I prefer with UK shows as compared with US shows, however, is that the writing for your shows is often much tighter. I think your much shorter seasons necessitate that. And the result is faster-paced shows over a given season. A perfect recent example of that is to compare the first season of the UK version of Being Human which was only 6 episodes long with the US version which was begun a couple of years later. When that show was brought over here and re-done as a US show they extended the same basic content into a whole 20+ episode season. They ended up having to introduce completely new secondary story lines just to fill out that number of shows. Another example of the problem with our long seasons occurred with Lost. Midway through the show's lifespan, the shows REALLY started to drag on and on. My wife and I thought about giving up on the show. Then the show creators re-negotiated their contract with the network broadcasting the show so that the seasons were cut down to fewer episodes. The writing and stories got tighter and the show started to get back to the quality of the first couple of seasons. Interestingly, the problem doesn't crop up so much with our cable shows. Typically a given season is 10-12 episodes long (and sometimes shorter) and the shows generally move at a faster pace than the shows that are on our broadcast networks.

Finally, just a comment about Torchwood: Miracle Day. I agree that was very Americanized. That said, I generally liked it. True, it wasn't as good as when the show was solely a UK production. I don't know how anything could have topped the Children of Earth mini-series which was outstanding. Overall though it had more positives than negatives for me. But then, maybe that's because I'm American

[flyingbadger]

Lots of interesting stuff...

...But then, maybe that's because I'm American

[Badger Mark]

I do think that since Matt Smith the feel of the programmes has become more mass-market and American, but I do like him, he's a wonderful actor. I am glad they have gone for an older Doctor this time - hopefully the writers will also stop pandering to the lowest common denominator (ie the American audience) and we'll have some really good storylines again.

In what ways did the writers pander to American audiences? As a representative of said audience I'd like some examples. I'm genuinely curious rather than trying to pick a fight.

Ok - I accept a sweeping generalisation of that sort is inappropriate, especially when a representative of a very different section of "American culture" to that stereotype is right here. Apologies Mark.

I think the tone of the series became much more aimed at a younger, possibly less discerning and more fickle audience with a far shorter attention span. It glossed up and dumbed down - perhaps not fatally so (well definitely not), but noticeably so for loyal audiences. This coincided with a huge swell of popularity for the series in America, from a far more mainstream audience than it had previously enjoyed, which I am assuming was not a coincidence.

No apologies necessary! You bring up some valid points. I can't say I disagree with them (except maybe the shorter attention span one) which I addressed in my - admittedly long - post.

[chrysostom]

Researching Sherlock. Even though he's ugly as sin, Cumberbatch is a hell of an actor. Freeman is pretty good too. God bless the BBC.

[The Deadly]

Researching Sherlock. Even though he's ugly as sin, Cumberbatch is a hell of an actor. Freeman is pretty good too. God bless the BBC.

All the ladies seem to love him. He must have something.

[Yudster]

Researching Sherlock. Even though he's ugly as sin, Cumberbatch is a hell of an actor. Freeman is pretty good too. God bless the BBC.

Ugly? Ugly?! Ok Chrysostom, if this is a plot designed to stop me calling you a girl, it worked. You clearly aren't even a tiny bit female.

[chrysostom]

He looks like an MP chewing an arse flavoured toffo.

His attraction is purely due to intellect, not his appearance.

[Yudster]

He looks like an MP chewing an arse flavoured toffo.

His attraction is purely due to intellect, not his appearance.

That may be true of Sherlock, but I don't know about Benedict Cumberbatch's intellect. Believe me, he is hot. Not in a conventional way I grant you, but pretty boys are boring.

[The Deadly]

Is he on your allowed list?

[Yudster]

I don't care!

[The Deadly]

Nice I like that. Just straight up sex, no questions asked.

[Badger Mark]

My wife and I have watched the first 2 episodes of Broadchurch which is being shown on BBCA. Very good. 2 episodes behind and I hope to catch up over the weekend. We've also been watching Spaced on Netflix. Very good as well.

Also looking forward to seeing The World's End tomorrow. I know it's not TV, but mentioning Spaced reminded me that we're going to see that movie tomorrow for my wife's birthday.

[The Deadly]

In keeping with my habit of watching popular TV shows about 8 years too late I have fallen in love with Dexter. Tremendous show.

[Topher]

My wife and I have watched the first 2 episodes of Broadchurch which is being shown on BBCA.

But it was on ITV here... surprised the BBC paid for the rights to show it abroad?

[Badger Mark]

My wife and I have watched the first 2 episodes of Broadchurch which is being shown on BBCA.

But it was on ITV here... surprised the BBC paid for the rights to show it abroad?

That is surprising. I had just assumed the show was produced by the BBC.

[Topher]

Either way, enjoy - it's bloody brilliant. I'd be interested to know how it's received generally over there.