[Tunster]

... jeez guys there is only so many times you can joke Radio X is a tinpot station before the public believe it.

What's not to believe? It IS a tinpot station. Its credentials as a national broadcaster are flimsy at best and in reality non-existent...

It's because Radio X lost that music credibility when it re-branded. Although it was flagging a little bit before the announcement; it's ended up being plastered with a very bland/repetitive/narrow music mix with a big radio personality plus lots of smaller ones. You can't build a radio brand overnight.

It's a confusing brand to start with (even they couldn't get the description correct on launch). Moyles fans have replaced the XFM hardcores, but the rest of the station is not adding generic listeners. Around the TCMS, it's relatively poor, dull and disconnected. Whether that's Chris' fault or Global not being able to manage the Radio X brand; I don't know. Personality radio is not what Global do as a business.

Like all this week, Vernon has been part of the last 30 - 45 mins of the show. A deliberate attempt to try boost his ratings before he gets kicked off? Nothing flows and I don't think the rest of the station (apart from Vaughan who sounds very good) know who they're targeting.

Interesting that (the new) Virgin Radio without any FM presence and on the less widely reached D2 multiplex has got 490k from a standing start.

That's the surprise story for me. Apart from a huge poster campaign and some other bits; they've attracted an audience (whether it's nostalgia or getting the format right). I personally love the music mix and seemed to have got their music/chat balance right. Only reason I don't listen more often is because Moyles isn't on it and I do a lot of my listening in the first half of the day (we have a Spotify playlist at work).

What happens after his holiday, who knows. Radio X is a big kick up the arse with some bigger personality presenters, broaden their playlist although it goes against Global's principals (I'm sure OFCOM will bend over like they always do), and allow it to grow. The constant petty competitions week in week out do disrupt Chris' flow.

[fish heads]

... jeez guys there is only so many times you can joke Radio X is a tinpot station before the public believe it.

What's not to believe? It IS a tinpot station. Its credentials as a national broadcaster are flimsy at best and in reality non-existent because the fact still remains that for the vast majority of people who listen to the radio are like me, they still want to be able to switch on the RADIO and listen. I can do that and hear Chris Evans. I'd prefer to be able to hear Chris Moyles, but Evans is good enough. The idea that we have to change our habits in order to be able to accommodate our entertainment is bonkers. Entertainment needs to slot in with people, not the other way around.

I assume by being able to switch on the radio, you mean FM radio. I've listened to Moyles on DAB since he was on afternoons at Radio 1, so I've noticed zero difference but I'm a radio fan, and you highlight a massive problem here.

Global are probably the biggest radio network in the UK outside of the BBC, so when you talk of lack of credentials I don't buy that. XFM has been national on DAB previously as well, prior to the launch of XFM Manchester. I think we are now approaching the point where more people now listen to radio digitally (be that through DAB/apps/tv) than FM. FM is going to be switched off in the next few years apparently, so habits are going to have to change. Not that that helps Moyles now - no mainstream music broadcaster will ever get a national FM licence and it's pretty unusual that Radio X have been allowed to play the same breakfast show on FM in two cities already. Radio X need to admit defeat in that manner and change plan and make people turn over because of good content not do lame "win a DAB" competitions.

Currently the biggest commercial breakfast show in this country is Christian O Connell on Absolute with well over double the audience of Moyles - they only have an FM presence in London so less reach that way than Moyles has. They are nationwide on MW but it's much harder to build an audience there. It shows it can be done though - as alluded to I don't think Radio X are building their brand particularly well.

[Tunster]

... jeez guys there is only so many times you can joke Radio X is a tinpot station before the public believe it.

What's not to believe? It IS a tinpot station. Its credentials as a national broadcaster are flimsy at best and in reality non-existent because the fact still remains that for the vast majority of people who listen to the radio are like me, they still want to be able to switch on the RADIO and listen. I can do that and hear Chris Evans. I'd prefer to be able to hear Chris Moyles, but Evans is good enough. The idea that we have to change our habits in order to be able to accommodate our entertainment is bonkers. Entertainment needs to slot in with people, not the other way around.

Global are probably the biggest radio network in the UK outside of the BBC, so when you talk of lack of credentials I don't buy that. XFM has been national on DAB previously as well, prior to the launch of XFM Manchester. I think we are now approaching the point where more people now listen to radio digitally (be that through DAB/apps/tv) than FM. FM is going to be switched off in the next few years apparently, so habits are going to have to change. Not that that helps Moyles now - no mainstream music broadcaster will ever get a national FM licence and it's pretty unusual that Radio X have been allowed to play the same breakfast show on FM in two cities already. Radio X need to admit defeat in that manner and change plan and make people turn over because of good content not do lame "win a DAB" competitions.

Currently the biggest commercial breakfast show in this country is Christian O Connell on Absolute with well over double the audience of Moyles - they only have an FM presence in London so less reach that way than Moyles has. They are nationwide on MW but it's much harder to build an audience there. It shows it can be done though - as alluded to I don't think Radio X are building their brand particularly well.

As I Said my last response, the biggest problem is that Global are sticking the Capital/Heart model on to Radio X. Lots of narrow-banded music (choice is less in the indie/alternative vs pop), minimal chat, big-small competitions every week on station that needs more variety, personality, and consistency. TCMS is vastly different to the rest of the output and most listeners (even if a general fan of CM); will want to stick with Radio X. I personally don't, and can't see any appeal with Vernon and the rest (apart from Vaughan).

It's all a bit spaghetti and will go down hill if Global doesn't take the Radio X brand a bit more seriously. I did hear that Radio X wasn't even mentioned in their PR as if it's the abandoned child.

[Yudster]

..... a large % of listeners that just have a radio tuned to their usual station and as long as its "good enough" and they will just accept it for the period they listen to it, maybe more as background noise.

Nothing wrong with a bit of selective quoting!

This is precisely how most people do listen to the radio. And its why Radio X - or any digital only broadcaster - can't be taken seriously as a national station.

[David]

Interesting that (the new) Virgin Radio without any FM presence and on the less widely reached D2 multiplex has got 490k from a standing start.

I have a hunch that the new Virgin may have done well out of those who are listening to the old Virgin (Absolute) and haven't ticked the right box. In fact, I believe that up until very recently, Absolute was listed in Rajar diaries as "Absolute Radio (formally Virgin)".

[welshblob]

FM is going to be switched off in the next few years apparently, so habits are going to have to change.

You're going to have to find a source for that statement as I believe the dates that were set have been abandoned and that the UK's listening would have to hit 50% before FM shut off would start to the be planned.

Internet is the way to go for me as my DAB experience has been poor both from a reception and interface perspectives.

[fish heads]

This is precisely how most people do listen to the radio. And its why Radio X - or any digital only broadcaster - can't be taken seriously as a national station.

Radio X isn't a digital only broadcaster. Outside of the BBC there is only really Classic FM on national FM. Everything else (Capital/Heart) are local variations not the same country wide. If Moyles moved to Capital breakfast (for example) he couldn't be nationwide due to Ofcom restrictions.

[fish heads]

FM is going to be switched off in the next few years apparently, so habits are going to have to change.

You're going to have to find a source for that statement as I believe the dates that were set have been abandoned and that the UK's listening would have to hit 50% before FM shut off would start to the be planned.

Internet is the way to go for me as my DAB experience has been poor both from a reception and interface perspectives.

I'm sure I read something recently that it was back on the agenda since Ed Vazey stepped down as communications minister. Could be wrong. Realistically I don't think it will ever happen - although 49% of listeners use DAB in the latest rajars! Probably a lot of spin on that but we probably aren't far enough the government forcing it though if they wanted to.

[welshblob]

I was looking at the rajar infographic .... http://radiotoday.co.uk/2016/08/rajar-q ... ata-sheet/

So they state 59% of the population tune into digital radio every week and total 45.3% of all radio listening is now digital. So its increasing and I expect the gov will force it if there is money to be made selling off parts of the spectrum again.

I also like how they state that 30 million people claim to own a DAB radio, as if they are sceptical of that fact

[welshblob]

This is precisely how most people do listen to the radio. And its why Radio X - or any digital only broadcaster - can't be taken seriously as a national station.

Radio X isn't a digital only broadcaster. Outside of the BBC there is only really Classic FM on national FM. Everything else (Capital/Heart) are local variations not the same country wide. If Moyles moved to Capital breakfast (for example) he couldn't be nationwide due to Ofcom restrictions.

Heart has some networked shows outside of breakfast though like Toby Anstis.

[fish heads]

Yeah, the rule in general is if you have an FM licence you have to broadcast locally at breakfast and drive, and they are pretty liberal inbetween. Hence it being a pretty big deal when Radio X has both of their breakfast and drive shows on FM in two cities. If by some miracle Radio X got loads of new franchises across the nation on FM it's likely they'd have to go local on breakfast. Outside these hours it's pretty common to network a lot of shows.

If Moyles wanted to go national on commercial FM radio, he'd have to drop out of "prime time" and move to proper daytime, evenings or weekends. Seems unlikely as he's gone on record saying he believes DAB is the future.

[Tunster]

Global got what they wanted with Radio X because they push the buttons at OFCOM. Although doing some digging; XFM had networked daytime sourced from London after they dumped their presenterless lineup during the day. So really nothing's changed. I'm sure if Global want to network their Heart/Capital breakfast shows, I'm sure they could get that approved.

Moyles sounds a bit miffed that Dom is ill (again) and Phillipa not around today on the last show before his hols.

The show needs a big boost from somewhere. Whether Radio X is given less shitty comps, widen the music selection and hires some better talent for daytime; something needs to happen.

[Yudster]

This is precisely how most people do listen to the radio. And its why Radio X - or any digital only broadcaster - can't be taken seriously as a national station.

Radio X isn't a digital only broadcaster. Outside of the BBC there is only really Classic FM on national FM. Everything else (Capital/Heart) are local variations not the same country wide. If Moyles moved to Capital breakfast (for example) he couldn't be nationwide due to Ofcom restrictions.

Unless you live in London or Manchester it is.

[MitchOnAStick]

RE: today's show, amazing what the slightest difference can make. No Pippa and no Dom made the show a bit more fun today. Obviously I don't want either to leave, nor would I enjoy it if it became a regular thing. But limiting the voices and adding a couple of guests in just freshened the format up a bit. I miss those moments where Dom and Carrie left the room and it was only Chris, Dave and a producer discussing life. Maybe a segment per show where it's just Chris and one other person would spruce up the sound. Anything to stop the show sounding so... commercial radio.

[Tunster]

RE: today's show, amazing what the slightest difference can make. No Pippa and no Dom made the show a bit more fun today. Obviously I don't want either to leave, nor would I enjoy it if it became a regular thing. But limiting the voices and adding a couple of guests in just freshened the format up a bit. I miss those moments where Dom and Carrie left the room and it was only Chris, Dave and a producer discussing life. Maybe a segment per show where it's just Chris and one other person would spruce up the sound. Anything to stop the show sounding so... commercial radio.

Or stale? I thought Chris was struggling just after 7:30am as it was only Dave and himself (plus the guy from LBC that Chris seems to have an obsession over).

The next 4 weeks is going to seem long without him live on-air. Probably needs the long break as I'm sure he needs to work harder producing the show a lot more himself. Or maybe he's needing the 4 weeks to have a holiday and work on some new jingles/features?

Going back to the RAJAR topic, I do wonder if the online stats are really quite high and mask the popularity of the show?

[fish heads]

Unless you live in London or Manchester it is.

Feels like we're going round in circles, but I'll just repeat the fact that unless Moyles goes back to the BBC he's always going to be restricted on FM coverage at breakfast.

Global got what they wanted with Radio X because they push the buttons at OFCOM. Although doing some digging; XFM had networked daytime sourced from London after they dumped their presenterless lineup during the day. So really nothing's changed. I'm sure if Global want to network their Heart/Capital breakfast shows, I'm sure they could get that approved.

Capital alone has 12 stations in the UK, Heart has about the same - there is no way they'll get approval for a "national" breakfast show taking that much local content out of the schedule every day. Radio X only got approval for the current arrangement by agreeing to get rid of XFM Scotland. Only chance they'll get maybe is if FM switchoff ever does get approval.

Going back to the RAJAR topic, I do wonder if the online stats are really quite high and mask the popularity of the show?

In what way? Rajar does allow for measurement of people listening online via the diary, but Global will have extremely accurate number of streams that aren't neccesarily in the Rajar report. Of course one stream does not always mean one listener, it can mean multiple listeners.

[Nicola_Red]

I thought Chris was struggling just after 7:30am as it was only Dave and himself (plus the guy from LBC that Chris seems to have an obsession over).

Oh my GOD, is it just me or is Steve Allen a crashing bore? Every time Chris brings him in I want to switch off. I don't get why Chris thinks he is good radio.

[Yudster]

Unless you live in London or Manchester it is.

Feels like we're going round in circles, but I'll just repeat the fact that unless Moyles goes back to the BBC he's always going to be restricted on FM coverage at breakfast.

Yes I know - all I am saying is that given that, listening figures are inevitably going to be low and stay low. The number of people prepared to invest in DAB or start fiddling with other devices when they have the option of just listening to something else without doing that is extremely limited. I have kind of lost track of what the original question here was, but if it was along the lines of "why are the listening figures so low and how can Chris improve them", well, that's the answer. He can't.

[Tunster]

Capital alone has 12 stations in the UK, Heart has about the same - there is no way they'll get approval for a "national" breakfast show taking that much local content out of the schedule every day. Radio X only got approval for the current arrangement by agreeing to get rid of XFM Scotland. Only chance they'll get maybe is if FM switchoff ever does get approval.

I'm not so sure. If Global (and most of the big radio groups) lobby for allowing drive or breakfast to go quasi-national across their whole brand network, I'm sure they'll get it. It's going that way since only those two shows have to be locally produced. The value of locally produced content in commercial going down in favour of reduced costs. I don't think many of the "typical" listeners would even notice or care. Local news output is so minimal/pathetic in 2016 and OFCOM are too lazy to enforce companies like Global to do better. That's why the community license was brought it.

I forgot XFM Scotland license was returned. This is most likely shaken and limited Chris' reach even further.

In what way? Rajar does allow for measurement of people listening online via the diary, but Global will have extremely accurate number of streams that aren't neccesarily in the Rajar report. Of course one stream does not always mean one listener, it can mean multiple listeners.

I understand that, but if online isn't included in the final RAJAR report (or Global refuse to state rounded figures), there's probably a good 10000s that could bump up Chris' ratings.

[neilt0]

Steve Allen is hilarious and should be on every day.
Wait, he is!

Not that I'd listen to that, but his banter with Chris is radio gold.

[JayE]

his banter with Chris is radio gold.

Nah, I think you're just easily pleased.

[neilt0]

With respect, you're wrong.

(RIP, Comedy Dave).

[Misfit]

With respect, you're wrong.

(RIP, Comedy Dave).

another circle, but I still think they should bring him back. His smart arse comments made the show the show for me.

Misfit

[fish heads]

Yes I know - all I am saying is that given that, listening figures are inevitably going to be low and stay low. The number of people prepared to invest in DAB or start fiddling with other devices when they have the option of just listening to something else without doing that is extremely limited. I have kind of lost track of what the original question here was, but if it was along the lines of "why are the listening figures so low and how can Chris improve them", well, that's the answer. He can't.

Well I sort of agree and said so much in my original post. I don't think you can convince people to switch to DAB through one show alone and my point was I wish they'd stop going on about it on the show. People are gradually drifting to DAB over time and Moyles won't change that.

However I disagree he can't increase the figures. Absolute Radio and Christian O Connell are absolutely smashing Radio X and they have very limited FM presence. The difference is they have a structured show and - like his content or not - built up a loyal following over the years by giving people a reason to tune in. Something Moyles doesn't currently have

[Tunster]

However I disagree he can't increase the figures. Absolute Radio and Christian O Connell are absolutely smashing Radio X and they have very limited FM presence. The difference is they have a structured show and - like his content or not - built up a loyal following over the years by giving people a reason to tune in. Something Moyles doesn't currently have

The only way CM will ever get much better listening figures is if Global actually cross-promoted shows across their networks. Capital/Heart have such a big reach, but the problem is that they're not like the BBC when they push different platforms across different mediums. Global would respond saying it would dent their audience figures for those networks, but there maybe friends/family members of people listening to the Capital/Heart who would listen to CM.

I think we just have to sit tight and wait for BBC Radio 2 to call. I agree that there aren't many other options if he left Radio X.