[Vivienne]

by a higher power than you... than any of us.

[Console]

Ooh, feisty. Do you have any opinion of the purpose of this plan?

[Vivienne]

I felt I quit too soon earlier, so I am BACK!! Right off ma bus and into a library esp. to deal with you!! I stated earlier I beleive the purpose is different for each person... each person has a different lesson to learn in life.

[Console]

Ok, but if you don't believe in Free Will, what is the point of learning anything. If the 'path' through life is pre-ordained, how would learning something change anything.

[Vivienne]

You are learning what you have been meant to learn... this is MY POINT. I'm so angry with you right now, console...

[Vivienne]

I'm waiting...

[Console]

Why angry?

My point, is that if Free Will doesn't exist, what is the point of learning anything. If we are just machines, programmed to do certain things is certain situations then what is the need of this life-long lesson? If Free Will is non-existent then we are essentially the same as all other living creatures, including plants and bacteria. Do they also have a lesson to learn?

[foot-loose]

You are learning what you have been meant to learn... this is MY POINT. I'm so angry with you right now, console...

You can't get angry with Console because he doesn't agree with you.*

This is a discussion, not an argument. There is no "right and wrong" as such, just different beliefs.

I only get annoyed when people start pushing their ideas on others. I don't mind discussing it, but when it turns into an arguement which is basically "I'm right and your wrong" - thats when it needs to stop.

*well, you can, but it's not justified.

[Vivienne]

everything is here for a purpose.... you think you have free will, think you are choosing your path, but you're not... your path is choosing you... Often if you look back over your life, you'll find it's like a spiders web: everything leading up to today : where you are right now. Can you honestly believe we are here for nothing.

And I'm angry because earlier in this thread you have basically called me stupid, and I tell you, I don't like it.

[Vivienne]

You are learning what you have been meant to learn... this is MY POINT. I'm so angry with you right now, console...

You can't get angry with Console because he doesn't agree with you.*

This is a discussion, not an argument. There is no "right and wrong" as such, just different beliefs.

I only get annoyed when people start pushing their ideas on others. I don't mind discussing it, but when it turns into an arguement which is basically "I'm right and your wrong" - thats when it needs to stop.

*well, you can, but it's not justified.

I was waiting on you coming in... I'm not puting ideas down his throat. I am having a DEBATE, which he ASKED for.. and I am angry cos earlier he basically suggested I wasn't capable of debate. And you still haven't explained my PROBLEM to me. I'd love to hear it.

[Console]

you think you have free will, think you are choosing your path

Actually, no I don't. I'm a follower of the determinism theory, which means that Free Will doesn't exist, and although the future is set, it isn't planned.

Often if you look back over your life, you'll find it's like a spiders web: everything leading up to today : where you are right now.

Yes, it's known as Cause and Effect. All the events of the past leading up to the present, and beyond. This doesn't involve any sort of plan, however, it was set in motion (by whatever means you believe) and it just is.

Can you honestly believe we are here for nothing.

Of course I can, in the same way that you don't.

And I'm angry because earlier in this thread you have basically called me stupid, and I tell you, I don't like it.

I'd be grateful if you would quote me on that, please.

[Vivienne]

I'm waiting.... slow typists on here aren't we.... least there's something I can do fast.

[Vivienne]

Earlier console, you suggested I was incapable of forming an argument (coherent or otherwise) !! So basically I'm a deranged lunatic... I spotted The "White Coats" thing in my other thread by the way, people, and I don't think it's funny. I don't like being called "stupid". I am not stupid.

[SAV1OUR]

Who here believes in random chaos? And that the future is unwritten?

[Vivienne]

I'm still waiting.....

[Console]

Earlier console, you suggested I was incapable of forming an argument (coherent or otherwise) !!

My point was based on the available information I had at the time, and although my opinion hasn't changed a whole lot since then, it in no way means you are stupid, and I never said or implied that you were.

So basically I'm a deranged lunatic...

An interesting conclusion to draw, but I know many people that can't debate particularly well, and not a single one of them could be described as a deranged lunatic.

Who here believes in random chaos? And that the future is unwritten?

Well, I believe the future is unwritten in so-far-as it's not been planned, but that everything is the way it will be and cannot be changed. A fundamental part of this is that randomness cannot exist, chaos (in the mathematical sense) can, but any random event. which defies the laws of Cause and Effect, cannot.

I'm still waiting.....

Then. please. learn to be patient. Perhaps that's what you're here to learn.

[Vivienne]

available info. at the time? such as what exactly ? I'd say you more thought I'd simply back down, and go to pieces, and wouldn't be capable of answering back, console. Well .. you're wrong.

[Console]

Actually, I was hoping to fire you up, which it seems to have, although it took far longer than I thought it would.

[foot-loose]

you still haven't explained my PROBLEM to me. I'd love to hear it.

Quite frankly, I really couldn't be arsed. Your mood swings are getting more and more irratic. Two hours before you complained about my post you said:

I just like him a lot, he's very smart without putting me down (unlike console), and he's a good soul. he's my fave on the forum.

It's too complicated to keep up with how you are going to react to something.

For the record, I was only pointing out that the way you had phrased the sentence (i.e. you were only getting off the bus to talk to console) was comical considering that you were having problems yesterday.


The white coat discussion was relating to the start of this thread when I think you said that it was your lucky colour or something like that?

[Vivienne]

perhaps patience is indeed one of the things I may be here to learn.. why not indeed?? how to be less logical and pedantic may well be one of your's, sir.

[Vivienne]

Mood swings are getting more and more erratic?? I am answering the stuff as things come up... and if you can't be arsed, then don't be arsed.

[Vivienne]

Actually, I was hoping to fire you up, which it seems to have, although it took far longer than I thought it would.

sorry to disappoint you.

[Console]

available info. at the time? such as what exactly ?

Well, for starters, you don't seem to show a lot of reasoning of give any evidence when making a point, and that's when you do actually answer a question. That combined with the generally feelings I get from your posts are what made me feel that way, you know, like cause and effect.

[Console]

sorry to disappoint you.

No apology necessary, the best things take time.

[Vivienne]

well, I appear to indeed by giving clear evidence tonite (shrugs shoulders). Explain cause and effect to me please.