[Vivienne]

I don't think it's sad at all... it's a clever way of keeping the site up and running.

[MK Chris]

Haha, how sad.

My god, I agree. That is completely selling out.. the one 'extra' thing you mentioned there is seeing people who are hidden.. well, surely the reason those people are hidden is that they don't want people to see them online. I understand that admins and moderators can and should be able to see, but it if the ability is there to be hidden, they should certainly not let other people see and they shouldn't be charging for the privilege.

That Jono, he's sold out. He didn't have much to sell out on, but he's managed it.

[catherine]

Do you not think it is invading people's privacy? They choose to be hidden but if somebody coughs up every month they can see? I think it is abit rude.

[Vivienne]

It's not just that: there's a list of things you can get extra. I'll be back with them shortly.

[Vivienne]

Website Donations
Unofficial Mills is free, and will continue to be so, but if you opt for a monthly subscription you'll be able to get these benefits:


Access to a special private 'Site Donators' forum

Avatars the size of up to 100 x 100 pixels.

Profile pictures the size of up to 100 x 100 pixels.

See who has set themselves to invisible.

See what guests have been looking at.

You'll be able to use a witty user title.

There's an extra 10mb of attachment space.

You'll be able to send out PMs to several people.

You'll be able to track your PMs.

And see why some threads have been deleted.

You can also use HTML in your signature.

And most importantly... no adverts!

It'll cost just a recurring £1.50 a month for these features, or £12 for a whole year's subscription. Your money will be taken through Paypal and will be used to help pay for website costs.

[catherine]

So most things Harris lets us have for free then. Thank you for not being Jono, hubby.

[Vivienne]

He's probably glad he's not married to you.

[MK Chris]

Website Donations

Firstly it's not a donation if you're getting something for it.. you're paying for a service. A shit one at that.

Access to a special private 'Site Donators' forum

Great, a forum to chat to all the other people with more money than sense.

Avatars the size of up to 100 x 100 pixels.
Profile pictures the size of up to 100 x 100 pixels.

Really, 100x100? Wow! Out of interest, what is the limit for non-paying members? In my opinion, 100x100 is slightly restrictive, so the peasants can't get very much to play with at all. So we actually get a better option for this despite it being free. (We do get a profile pictures system of sorts in the gallery.)

See who has set themselves to invisible.

As I said before.. people who wish to be invisible should be able to do so.. to everyone except administrators and moderators. If Jono were to take that option of being hidden away full stop, then I couldn't see a problem with that.... but to leave the option there, but let some people see you anyway? What a *.

See what guests have been looking at.

Hmm.. here you can view what guests are doing currently (if you really want to), using the 'users online' option. I can't see what viewing historical data is really useful for, with the possible exception of Jono.

You'll be able to use a witty user title.

Surely this is dependent on the user being witty. I refuse to believe that many (if any) of the users on that board have that ability anyway.

There's an extra 10mb of attachment space.

So what? I'd be interested in knowing what the limits are for non-paying users.

You'll be able to send out PMs to several people.

We can do that for free here.

You'll be able to track your PMs.

We can do that for free here (assuming that is the ability to see when someone has read your PM.)

And see why some threads have been deleted.

So what?

You can also use HTML in your signature.

This is dangerous (unless you disable certain HTML tags and attributes). We can use all the bbCode we need in our signatures here, what use is HTML unless you wish to do something malicious?

And most importantly... no adverts!

We have that for free here.

No benefit at all then, basically.

[Vivienne]

You're giving back something for the cost of the broadband. Surely if you sit on a site all day, and post a lot, you can do something constructive.

[catherine]

If Harris said or had a section saying please donate if you can then i would, but this is just silly.

[MK Chris]

You're giving back something for the cost of the broadband.

Cost of what broadband? Jono's broadband? No thanks, I don't want to pay for his internet.

I really shouldn't be annoyed because it doesn't affect me, with me not being a user there anyway - but I'm annoyed that he's conning people into believing it's worth their while donating. As Catherine says, if he just puts a link up to his Paypal account saying all donations welcome, that's one thing and quite acceptable at that... however, making people believe they are getting something in return when actually they're getting bugger all is quite another... and transforms it from a donation into a payment for a service.

Also - I wouldn't mind betting that another (unmentioned) 'benefit' is that you are less likely to be banned if you're a paying member.

[Vivienne]

bandwith it is.

[MK Chris]

Ah, well why didn't you say bandwidth? Even so.. this site is provided for free and is a hundred times better than UnofficialMills. And the users are a hundred times better, making the forum far more attractive.

[tina11]

Why such animosity? It's beyond me why you seem to be getting your knickers in such a twist over this, seeing as you clearly aren't a Unofficial Mills user.

Obviously anyone can join UM and post, certain members, however choose to make a contribution/would like extra features.

There are rumours of Scott having a livechat with UM from the pub soon. That should be fun.

[MK Chris]

Why such animosity? It's beyond me why you seem to be getting your knickers in such a twist over this, seeing as you clearly aren't a Unofficial Mills user.

This is true and I can see your point.. however, whether it affects me or not, anything that is clearly a con (which this is) annoys me.

Obviously anyone can join UM and post, certain members, however choose to make a contribution/would like extra features.

It's not a contribution though, it's paying for a service. A service that mainly includes features that users get for free on here. The viewing 'hidden' users option is an utter farce. People choose to be hidden for a reason, if Jono is going to let everyone who pays him view them, that's going against their wishes.

There are rumours of Scott having a livechat with UM from the pub soon. That should be fun.

That's no concern of mine.

The thing is that Jono says Harris leads a rich lifestyle (which I doubt he knows for certain.. he may give that impression, but he has never stated it that I know of), but he can easily cut costs, for a start by using forum software that you don't need to pay for. vBulletin is not free software; phpBB (for example) is. There is also a link at the bottom of the page for a company who designed the layout of the site.. now this may be a mate of Jono who did it for free, or it may be Jono himself - but unless it's either of those to things, he's likely to have paid for that as well.

[pjordan2000]

And the users are a hundred times better,

Ah thanks Toph

[tina11]

I think your accusation of Jono conning people could be construed as libel. Mabe you ought to watch that. Just a suggestion.

Haha. Your knickers are so twisted now, I think I've just given you a virtual wedgie.

[catherine]

Libel? Topher look what you have done now, you are going to get sued, you really should have learnt your lesson from the last time.

[MK Chris]

I think your accusation of Jono conning people could be construed as libel. Mabe you ought to watch that. Just a suggestion.

So sue me.

Haha. Your knickers are so twisted now, I think I've just given you a virtual wedgie.

If you say so. You can pull them out if you want.

[Mike Redding]

You sound a tad annoyed, topher...

Cookie?

[DevilsDuck]

I personally think its rediculous to charge people for those services, but in all fairness to Jonno, its Mills listeners so he can get away with it!

[MK Chris]

You sound a tad annoyed, topher...

Cookie?

I don't know why I'm bothered actually.. if people are stupid enough to do it, that's up to them.

Contrary to what you may believe, I have nothing against Jono and UnofficialMills, I just disagree with some of the practices and policies there and I find this particular one astonishing.

[Chris]

Jono can ask for donations for what he wants, and if people are kind/stupid enough to pay .. then great for him. Personally I couldn't be bothered dealing with the tax and accounting implications of collecting subscriptions (or donations, come to that) ... but then I suspect he hasn't really bothered either. I'd be far more concerned about that than people throwing around groundless accusations of libel.

Having the ability to view users who choose to make themselves hidden, I do strongly disagree with. The privacy of the users of this site is something that we go to some lengths to protect, in fact it's our duty to do so - it's also his, whether he recognises it or not.

Until now I haven't chosen to pass comment on his money-making schemes, other than to highlight to our users how to remove the forum adverts (by registering .. not paying), but as he's chosen to enter this discussion by describing the unique way this site is funded as me being 'rich', then yeah .. I probably am significantly richer than some penniless student who works in Budgens. That doesn't take a genius to work out, does it?

If you're interested to know how this site is actually funded, then it's through the generosity of many individuals who have given their time, equipment, money and bandwidth for the good of the site (and yep, one of those individuals is me). It's also run based on sensible decisions - if you have a site that makes no money then you make the best use you can of free and open-source software. It's why we use phpBB.

[Ballbag]

*stands up and applauds*

Well done sire.

[Console]

I'm also back with unofficialmills. Things are resolved with Jono via pm's, and I am unbanned, and back... happening.

Good for you, now you can post identical threads on all three sites that share members.