[MK Chris]

Organised religion should be banned.

Organised religion shouldn't be banned - but imposing any type of religious belief upon others should be. Atheism included.

I actually agree with you, but I'm going to put my pedantic hat on (for a change) and say that atheism is not a religion. If atheism is a religion, baldness is a hairstyle.

[foot-loose]

No. Plus, the other kind isn't gonna get me plus points with the big cheese in heaven.

[Munki Bhoy]

Organised religion shouldn't be banned - but imposing any type of religious belief upon others should be. Atheism included.

I actually agree with you, but I'm going to put my pedantic hat on (for a change) and say that atheism is not a religion. If atheism is a religion, baldness is a hairstyle.

He never said it was a religion though, he said it was a religious belief - i.e. you believe there definitely isn't a God. I'm with TIAL on that one, some atheists are worse than most when it comes to trying to get you to believe they are right.

[MK Chris]

It's a lack of religious belief though - but you are right, of course, some are terrible - just like some Christians are horrible people and some are nice people... same goes for Muslims, Hindus, agnostics and anybody else.

[Console]

you believe there definitely isn't a God.

Only in the same way that most people believe there definitely isn't a Father Christmas/Santa Claus. Does that count as a belief?

[Munki Bhoy]

It's a lack of religious belief though - but you are right, of course, some are terrible - just like some Christians are horrible people and some are nice people... same goes for Muslims, Hindus, agnostics and anybody else.

See, I would argue it's not a lack of religious belief. Agnostics have no religious belief - they just don't know. Atheists think they do know and therefore have a belief. It's not a lack of belief, they're certain there is no God.

Only in the same way that most people believe there definitely isn't a Father Christmas/Santa Claus. Does that count as a belief?

That's different. If I asked you to prove your belief that there's no Santa then you could produce shop receipts that say you were the one that bought the presents for the kids rather than them being delivered through the chimney. If I asked you to prove your belief that there's no God what would you produce?

[foot-loose]

If I asked you to prove your belief that there's no God what would you produce?

Piers Morgan.

[Munki Bhoy]

If I asked you to prove your belief that there's no God what would you produce?

Piers Morgan.

Balls.

[Console]

Only in the same way that most people believe there definitely isn't a Father Christmas/Santa Claus. Does that count as a belief?

That's different. If I asked you to prove your belief that there's no Santa then you could produce shop receipts that say you were the one that bought the presents for the kids rather than them being delivered through the chimney. If I asked you to prove your belief that there's no God what would you produce?

In what way to shopping receipts disprove the existence of Santa? Just because some presents somewhere were bought doesn't mean that some other presents weren't bought/created by Santa.

If I asked you to prove your belief (which I assume you have) that there's no such things as dragons/unicorns/fairies/leprechauns what would you produce?

[MK Chris]

It's a lack of religious belief though - but you are right, of course, some are terrible - just like some Christians are horrible people and some are nice people... same goes for Muslims, Hindus, agnostics and anybody else.

See, I would argue it's not a lack of religious belief. Agnostics have no religious belief - they just don't know. Atheists think they do know and therefore have a belief. It's not a lack of belief, they're certain there is no God.

Strong atheists say they know there's no god. I don't class myself as a strong atheist, because to say you know takes the same sort of faith that a belief in god takes. I would say I am 99.99% certain in my beliefs and that possibly makes me a weak atheist... so be it. Actually, I prefer to call it rationalist, but others would disagree.

Only in the same way that most people believe there definitely isn't a Father Christmas/Santa Claus. Does that count as a belief?

That's different. If I asked you to prove your belief that there's no Santa then you could produce shop receipts that say you were the one that bought the presents for the kids rather than them being delivered through the chimney. If I asked you to prove your belief that there's no God what would you produce?

The onus is on the believer to produce the evidence though, not the non-believer. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan.

[Munki Bhoy]

Fair point.

But I think we've moved away from the main point I was trying to make - believing there is no God IS a religious belief. Believing there's no Santa has very little to do with the religious side of Christmas. Although believing he doesn't exist, just as with the fairies, leprechauns, unicorns and dragons, are still beliefs of a different flavour.

I suppose you could also argue that my flavour of agnostic is also a religious belief because I believe there are things out there that the human race not only doesn't understand but is very probably incapable of understanding - most of which can account for "God".

This is way more debate than I'd intended to try and out-pedant Topher!

[Munki Bhoy]

The onus is on the believer to produce the evidence though, not the non-believer. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan.

Again, my point would be that atheists need to prove their belief that there is no God just as a Christian should prove the existence of God or a Muslim should prove the existence of Allah.

But then another key point of religious belief is that they don't have to prove anything - that's what faith does. A cop out? Probably. But then atheists saying it's up the others to prove there's a God is a cop out as well. Hell, agnostics are the kings of cop out!

[Console]

believing there is no God IS a religious belief.

Only in so far as having no money means that you still have money.

[Yudster]

Secularism is a belief system like any other.

[Console]

No, it isn't. That's a different kind of belief. Belief in secularism is equatable to a belief in democracy, a belief in morality - not to a belief, or the lack of, in the divine/supernatural.

[Sunny So Cal]

I'm going to put my pedantic hat on (for a change)

What change would YOU being pedantic be?

[Yudster]

No, it isn't.

Yes it is. You need to read more.

How many Anglicans does it take to change a light bulb?
10 - 1 to change the bulb, 9 to say how much they preferred the old one.

How many Calvinists does it take to change a lightbulb?
None - god has predestined when the lights will be on.

How many liberals does it take to change a light bulb?
10, as they need to hold a debate into whether or not the light bulb exists. Even if they can agree upon the existence of the light bulb they may not go ahead and change it for fear of alienating those who use fluorescent tubes.

How many Baptists does it take to change a lightbulb?
1 - any more would be considered ecumenical.

How many evangelicals does it take to change a light bulb?
Evangelicals do not change light bulbs. They simply read out the instructions and hope the light bulb will change itself.

How many fundamentalists does it take to change a light bulb?
None - the bible doesn't say anything about lightbulbs.

How many TV preachers does it take to change a lightbulb?
1. But for the message of hope to continue to go forth, send in your donation today.

How many atheists does it take to change a lightbulb?
1, but they are still in darkness.

[Console]

No, it isn't.

Yes it is. You need to read more.

Good argument.

[Boboff]

I read that somewhere.

[Nicola_Red]

I'm definitely not gonna get involved in a religion debate..but this message I received on facebook this morning gave me, and my flatmate, a good chortle:

"Hi miss i think you look amazing x x im very submissive miss and would luv to be your little subtoy if your interested let me know plz x ps my mobile is..."

and he actually sent it at 9.30am today too. On the Lord's day!

[Yudster]

No, it isn't.

Yes it is. You need to read more.

Good argument.

It is indeed.

[Sunny So Cal]

Loved it, Yuds.

[Yudster]

Making me smile and laugh in a slightly nervous and apprehensive manner is that I have booked and paid for Miss Yudster's flights to and from Nairobi......lumme.

[jocky85]

Seeing my friends final work as part of a fashion show on Saturday night

Also the prospect of a weekend in New York followed by 2weeks in Florida in November!

[TIAL]

There's a great 2-hour Jaguar Skills mix on at the moment. Video-game themed this time.
It's well worth a listen again if that's your thing.

Radio 1 really do seem to love Jaguar Skills at the moment. Not that I'm complaining! He's ace.