[Yudster]

The Lib Dem manifesto does look good - unfortunately its completely unworkable. If they actually got the chance to try they'd be shitting themselves knowing that their bluff had been called. Its a shame really because god knows we need a viable alternative to the other mainstream parties.

[foot-loose]

I tried to get a credit card recently and was refused one. I had also only asked for one because I wanted to build up a good credit rating, and in fact, I had had one a few years previously. I used it once abroad, paid it immediately, and then never used it again (because I never needed to), letting it expire. Could that have been the reason I was refused one this time?

Anyway, it annoys me because it feels like they're doing this because I had the nerve last time not to rely on it and get myself into trouble with it.

It could be the card company that you tried and what sort of customers they are looking for. Try a different company.

I had a credit card. It was used, paid and then kept in case I needed it again. For a long time, I didn't, but then when I did, I found that without discussing it with me (or informing me, although they say they did - they didn't though) they credit card company had closed the account. When I asked why, they said "we have the right to close any account for whatever reason". I asked what the reason was - they couldn't give me one, apart from that I didn't use it regularly.

Since when have service providers had the right to dictate how their paying customers use that service (as long as its within the terms and conditions)? These people are endowing themselves with importance and authority which they really don't have - they provide a service for which WE pay, yet they behave as though they are doing us a favour letting us do so.

Its not for credit card companies to decide what we have our cards for. For many of us it isn't about building a credit rating by using it every month, its about being able to access credit when WE NEED to. If our account is in order, it should be up to us how we use it.

Just to play the good ol devils advocate here, and because I used to have to fight the banks corner on this - this is a credit agreement, not a bank account. The bank have agreed to lend you their money to use. Part of that agreement will be if they believe your circumstances have changed then the risk to them will have changed and that they can change the credit available to you from them. Another part, I assume, will be that if you haven't used your account for some time then it will be deemed that you dont need the facilities any more. When you open an account, you agree to the terms on the account. One of the terms will be that they can withdraw facilities as and when they think they should.

From my point of view, its a security risk to have a card which hasnt been used in ages sitting open with £xxxx available to spend.

I am surprised they didnt tell you thats what they were doing though. I think that if they did deem it important to change the status of the account, they would at least need to write and tell you.

[Johnny 1989]

The Tories are definately out of the window for me, after all the money that has been spent on the much needed Crossrail the Tories today said they can't guarantee it's future, oh dear

[Jill]

What annoys me about the Labour Party is that they're saying "if we win then we will do this, we will do that, we promise this" etc. They are in power now!, they have had the last x amount of years to do all this stuff, why havent they done it already? My vote will be Tory again. Gotta be better than the crap people in power now.

[MK Chris]

The Tories were no different for the 18 years they were in power up to 1997.

[DevilsDuck]

Torries annoy me as they still want to make the rich richer and I dont want a PM that I want to punch in the face everytime I see him, the smarmy twat reminds me of an estate agent or a used car salesman. They will just sell off any public sector stuff they can, which will make money in the short term, but will then have to be resolved 15 years down the line.

I think labour have done bloody well over the last 13 years and think they are pushing things in the right direction, bank crisis was a * up and a half, but they turned it round pretty quickly really.

I'm completely indifferent to the Lib Dems

[Yudster]

The Tories were no different for the 18 years they were in power up to 1997.

Yes they were, they were much, much worse. I remember only too clearly.

[MK Chris]

Well, true.

Why do you say the Lib Dem manifesto is unworkable, Yudster? They've costed it all on the back.

[Johnny 1989]

What annoys me about the Labour Party is that they're saying "if we win then we will do this, we will do that, we promise this" etc. They are in power now!, they have had the last x amount of years to do all this stuff, why havent they done it already? My vote will be Tory again. Gotta be better than the crap people in power now.

Jill, I don't know how old you are but I'm just about old enough to remember enough of the last Tory Goverment under Thatcher's final years & Major's run, trust me it was a lot worse then than it is now. Take the railways for example, Major rushed the bill through parliment before Labour took over and have been stuck with the bill, so far (in the south east at least) 4-6 firms have been stripped of their franchise due to poor performance, however all have had healthy profits each year. All public services (Water, Electric, Gas, Telecoms, etc.) were privatised under the Tories & now have their problems.

The Tories have said that they will cut spending on everything barring the health service & the dept for international development. Minimum wage rises will more than likely disappear (one thing that I can definately praise Labour for as the minimum wage has rose every year under Labour) or be much less at the least. There's also been talk of the freedom pass being taken away for OAP's as well.

I think Boris Johnston is a clear example of a Tory in power, for years TFL have given free travel to all on New Years Eve/day yet Boris took this away on New Years Eve just gone.

Trust me if Cameron gets in it'll get much worse. If you don't like Labour, that's fine, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, however don't just vote Tory because your pissed off with Labour when there are better alternatives out there.

[Yudster]

Well, true.

Why do you say the Lib Dem manifesto is unworkable, Yudster? They've costed it all on the back.

Why would you think that their sums are any more accurate than ayone elses?

I think their manifesto is unworkable primarily because it is, if anything, too radical. There is no way that they are going to get elected with enough of a majority to carry through most of the cost cutting and revenue raising policies, and the pressure from the EU and the USA to back track on the plan to scrap the nuclear replacement programme (which is one of their biggest cost cutters) would make that impossible too. But it sounds lovely doesn't it, its no wonder people think they have all the answers. In idealistic terms they would have my vote at the moment, but politics isn't a place for idealism any more.

[MK Chris]

Well, they're not going to get elected anyway, but that aside, I thought the current US administration was anti-nuclear as well?

Also - you originally said you put them in the 'no different' category and now you're saying they're too radical - they can't be both, surely.

[Yudster]

They're in the "no different" category based on what they would actually do if they were in power, not what they are promising to do. That's the point - the lovely, bright, fresh, radical manifesto wouldn't ever be implemented so they would be no different.

[MK Chris]

But how do you know that without having given them the chance? All you've said is that they wouldn't be able to scrap Trident (which you can't be sure of until you know exactly how influenced they'd be by external pressures and anyway, as I said, I thought Obama's administration was committed to an anti-nuclear stance?)

True, they won't get in, but I think that's partly due to the first-past-the-post nonsense we have at the moment where one vote doesn't really count for one; but mainly due to the whole 'wasted vote' mentality; if we had a system of proportional representation, they would hold a lot more clout in parliament.

[Yudster]

Its based on precedent really. Of the previous four or five administrations, how many have actually implemented their manifesto? None. The Labour party had a massive majority last time, they could have done anything they wanted (theoretically), but they still didn't. Because its simply not as simple as "when we get in we'll change this and that and so the other". It doesn't work like that, there are so many other factors influencing government. Thats why I look at the Labour manifesto and whilst it doesn't make me smile I can at least believe that it could be the basis of a government in action, simply because its realistic enough not to pretend that they can do stuff which we all know they can't.

Of course all this also explains the "no different" scenario I was talking about, which is as much the fault of our parliamentary systems as it is the parties involved. And although it might not sound like it, I am still far from convinced that I will be voting Labour.

I read today that the Lib Dems are going to alter the focus of their campaign slightly to maximise the positive feedbalck they have been getting from younger voters and first time voters. I think thats a good idea, not just for the party but for the whole democratic process because if it gets people who wouldn't otherwise have bothered to vote even slightly interested in doing so it can't be a bad thing.

[MK Chris]

Of course all this also explains the "no different" scenario I was talking about, which is as much the fault of our parliamentary systems as it is the parties involved.

That's what I was getting at really - that's the only way that I could see that you could make such an assertion, but then if that's the case then surely you would say the same about pretty much any third party regardless.

I read today that the Lib Dems are going to alter the focus of their campaign slightly to maximise the positive feedbalck they have been getting from younger voters and first time voters. I think thats a good idea, not just for the party but for the whole democratic process because if it gets people who wouldn't otherwise have bothered to vote even slightly interested in doing so it can't be a bad thing.

Me too, even if it's very late - there's not much longer to register to vote now, is there?

As an aside, I rarely watch Party Political Broadcasts, but the Eddie Izzard one for Labour was very good.

[foot-loose]

Could a mod close this thread and move the convo into the current one so we dont end up having multiple threads on the same subject?