[bmstinton93]

So why do lots of people seem to hate Neil Lennon? I really don't follow Scottish football

[Johnny 1989]

So why do lots of people seem to hate Neil Lennon? I really don't follow Scottish football

Don't know the real reason myself but I think it's a tedious religious thing (yes I said tedious, like all religious wars of recent times they are "tedious" in my opinion). Rangers are Protestants, Celtic are Catholics & the whole * thing goes back years, it's ridiculous especially seeing as both are of a different strand of the same religion. To be honest I'm beyond caring of that stupid fight up there.

You get a similar thing in Liverpool of which up there Liverpool fans paint their houses red, Everton fans Blue, anyone who dare paints it the opposing colour in a particular street/area and you get the shit kicked out of you, I have heard of incidents of where two scousers won't talk to each other because one supports Everton & the other Liverpool. Newcastle-Sunderland fans don't liek each other much at all either, with them it dates all the way back to the Civil war, where Geordies & Macams were on different sides during the war.

Millwall-West Ham goes all the way back to their "dockers" days although now the thugs the fight each other are no marks who couldn't string a sentence together if they tried.

In comparison the Arsenal-Tottenham rivalry is very tame, the odd little scuffle from time to time but nothing more, the Chelsea-Fulham one is even more tamer, I don't think I've ever heard of an incident where a Fulham fan has lamped a Chelsea one (well not in recent times)

[Yudster]

So is it just the sectarian issue or is there something specifically about Lennon that is adding fuel to that particular fire? I know those matters have always been serious in Scotland, Glasgow particularly I believe (although I am happy to be corrected on that) but something about Neil Lennon does seem to have set it all to the boil whereas its managed to just stay simmering in the background for years until now.

[dimtimjim]

Its 'cos Neil Lennon is an anorgram of 'Stupid Ruddy Jocks'.

[Johnny 1989]

So is it just the sectarian issue or is there something specifically about Lennon that is adding fuel to that particular fire? I know those matters have always been serious in Scotland, Glasgow particularly I believe (although I am happy to be corrected on that) but something about Neil Lennon does seem to have set it all to the boil whereas its managed to just stay simmering in the background for years until now.

I believe it's because he's for a "United Ireland" although I may be wrong, to be honest the argument between the two of them has been going on for so long now that I've got bored of it all.

[Munki Bhoy]

*deep breath*

It's difficult to understand the mentality of these people to be honest, but taking an educated guess I'd say that it's a combination of many factors.

He's Northern Irish, so that comes with baggage. He's Catholic, so that puts him firmly on one side of the divide. He may or may not be Republican, I don't know. Wouldn't surprise me if he was. Now factor in that Celtic and Rangers have support on sides of that. So carrying on the theme, Lennon moves from England and goes and plays for the "right" side given his beliefs so far.

Next, make Lennon actually quite successful in his time as a player at Celtic. He was a defensive midfielder, so his job on the pitch was to stop the opposition. I don't particularly remember him being a dirty player in his time, but he was tough. He did have a bit of a temper, but nothing you could say other don't have more. Certainly there's bigger hot heads around than him. You could argue (and many do) that his attitude is the sort just pisses off others. Rangers have many such players that do the same to me to be honest, and I'm fairly sure you find this throughout football - think of your rivals and think of a player that just annoys you. You'll come up with one pretty quick. Lennon was that player for many Rangers fans.

While he was a player at Celtic, he got promoted to being the captain of his national team. That didn't go down well since most Northern Irish fans tend to be from the "other side". He got death threats and before he got to captain them he quit international football. Real shame but you can understand his decision.

Of course, it died down when he retired and went into coaching. At least it did until he took over as manager at Celtic. He's since proven to be quite a decent manager - he's the first Celtic manager to have a better head-to-head record over Walter Smith. Not bad when you consider that five managers have had a crack at Smith before Lennon - two of which won the league despite the head-to-head record. He has also been a bit hot headed in the dugout having had a few arguments with referees - and one with Ally McCoist in the other dugout (one that McCoist provoked incidentally). Certainly Lennon has done a brilliant job of taking a rotten Celtic, clearing out the garbage and getting us to the point that we're challenging Rangers again. Rangers fans obviously don't like that so it's another reason on top of everything else to hate him.

Is any of this a reason for him to have to deal with the nonsense he's having to? Of course not. But since when did rational thinking come into football, religion or political beliefs, let alone all of them combined?

Personally, I'm sick of it. I'd rather it was about the football. But this whole season has been about almost everything but. Which is a shame, because the football I've seen Celtic play this season is the best we've played since Martin O'Neill was in charge. Seems a bit lost among the nonsense.

And you'll note that O'Neill never had this same nonsense to put up with despite quite a few of the things that are true about Lennon also being true about O'Neill.

[bmstinton93]

But was it not a Hearts fan that clobbered him the other day?

[Munki Bhoy]

Hmmm...

He came from the Hearts end, but the story currently appears to be that he was not a Hearts fan.

Not that it matters. There are quite a few similarities between Hearts and Rangers, just as there are quite a few similarities between Hibs and Celtic. The Edinburgh two are, in many ways, smaller versions of the Glasgow two. And if anything, I've had more issues with Hearts fans than I have had with Rangers fans.

[DevilsDuck]

19

[foot-loose]

So why do lots of people seem to hate Neil Lennon? I really don't follow Scottish football

Try living here. Glasgow turns into a fecking zoo at the weekend half the time these days cos of football.

It's not fair.

[DevilsDuck]

....er.....Scotland is just one big Zoo

[foot-loose]

....er.....Scotland is just one big Zoo

I think we prefer to advertise it as a "nature reserve".

[DevilsDuck]

no no...

"natures reverse", Scotland is evolution going backwards....well no.....evolution backwards is noitulove, but yo uknow what I mean

[foot-loose]

no no...

"natures reverse", Scotland is evolution going backwards....well no.....evolution backwards is noitulove, but yo uknow what I mean

I really don't.

[DevilsDuck]

You know the film wrong turn? Well they took the turning into Scotland

[dimtimjim]

You know the film wrong turn? Well they took the turning into Scotland

[foot-loose]

Don't encourage him tim.

[dimtimjim]

Trust, DD's humour is often aimed at me. Your turn now - and it was funny.

[foot-loose]

Humour?

[DevilsDuck]

thats what I was thinking

[Bonanzoid]

Can I summarise the Old Firm, their fans (not all, obviously - Krys is nice ) and everyone involved with both clubs? They're disgusting institutions. Absolutely repugnant.

Celtic fans sing sectarian songs at many matches, the board and the club ignore it. Rangers continue to blast a song before matches where their fans famously sing "* the Pope and the IRA" during a wee instrumental bitty.

Neil Lennon seems to be the target of a lot of criticism because of his conduct. I don't like the man, but bombs, attacks etc really are horrendous. Nothing he does justifies those types of reactions. But little things he does (like cupping his ears towards Rangers fans at Ibrox to suggest he can't hear them) while not malicious, they're definitely not wise.

I despise both clubs. They're loathsome.

[Yudster]

If what you describe is the case, then something needs to be done - but I certainly can't imagine how. Even if the clubs are made to behave, the fans can only be "controlled" whilst at matches. You can stop them singing certain songs in the stadium, but the hatred is still there when they get outside. Unless there is a way of enforcing a complete separation of any football related activity with an expression of sectarian opinion, you surely can't stop the problem completely?

[Johnny 1989]

Despite my teasing of all the Spurs fans about not getting to Europe, I hope they beat Birmingham today. Also I'd like Blackpool to stay up so Spurs winning would help that too, long as they win as well.

Same here, really want Blackpool & Wolves to stay up, get rid of Birmingham and their crap style of football (although Stoke wins for piss poor style of football in the Premier League). Hopefully Man U will go easy on Blackpool seeing as the game means nothing to them, however knowing what Ferguson's like they probably won't.

To finish on a more positive note, I'd just like to congratulate Arsenal Ladies FC for winning the Women's FA Cup & for Wimbledon for getting back into the football league after a temporary absence, next stop for them to finish above MK Dons & then hopefully back in the Premier League within the next ten years.

[foot-loose]

If what you describe is the case, then something needs to be done - but I certainly can't imagine how. Even if the clubs are made to behave, the fans can only be "controlled" whilst at matches. You can stop them singing certain songs in the stadium, but the hatred is still there when they get outside. Unless there is a way of enforcing a complete separation of any football related activity with an expression of sectarian opinion, you surely can't stop the problem completely?

Give them, the fans, via the two clubs, a deadline of say six months. If the violence doesn't stop, both clubs are banned from playing the game.

[Munki Bhoy]

If what you describe is the case, then something needs to be done - but I certainly can't imagine how. Even if the clubs are made to behave, the fans can only be "controlled" whilst at matches. You can stop them singing certain songs in the stadium, but the hatred is still there when they get outside. Unless there is a way of enforcing a complete separation of any football related activity with an expression of sectarian opinion, you surely can't stop the problem completely?

Exactly. The problem is a society thing rather than a football thing. The football clubs are an outlet for the problem, not the problem itself. There is a LOT of educating that needs to be done, but few people involved are interested in being educated. And that goes for the fans of both clubs, the media that report on it, and the politicians who get involved only when they need elected.

This one for instance actually kinda amuses me in a sad sort of way. Most here don't even understand what "sectarian" actually means. The commonly held belief, especially among the fans and the media, is that it refers to an intolerance of religious beliefs. If that's the case then very little of what Celtic fans sing is actually sectarian - and I've heard many from my side make that point in the last couple of weeks. Most of Celtic fans non-football related repertoire revolves around the Irish republican political beliefs. So the argument is that they're not "sectarian" but they may be "offensive" to those who don't hold the same belief. Or more importantly, offensive to anyone who thinks the IRA are a terrorist group. Which is another grey area itself because the present day IRA are but the wars of Irish independence IRA aren't. Which makes a difference depending on what song is being sung.

However... the definition of sectarian is wrong. It's not just religious intolerance, it's not even intolerance. It's just splitting things up into "sects". So merely having a religious OR political belief is, by definition, sectarian. Funnier still, supporting a football team must also be sectarian! So, to me, it's a stupid debate. The problem isn't "sectarian" songs, it's "offensive" songs relating to your particular sect. As far as my lot are concerned, I wish we'd just drop the IRA references altogether, there's plenty more songs for Celtic fans to sing. To be fair, I think for the most part it HAS improved. It's not perfect by a long way, but certain sections of the Celtic support have helped add more football related songs to the list and they're getting sung a lot more than anything else unsavoury. You can blame us for the resurgence of "Just Can't Get Enough" which has spread throughout British football this season.

Offensive songs are part of football. It's all part of the banter between "us" and "them", whoever "us" and "them" may be. Some are more offensive than others, and that's not exclusively an issue here, but much of that offence comes from the underlying problems of society. It's when "I want to wind them up" goes too far into "I hate them" that the real problems occur.